Mom has been in a long-term care facility for a couple of months and verbally attacks me so I stopped speaking with her 3 weeks ago. Advice?

Robert, I think you've made a wise decision to go "no contact" at this time.

It sounds like your mother doesn't respect boundaries; her mental illness PLUS dementia makes it impossible for there to be rational discussions.

In time, with proper support and meds, she might be more easily visited. It is not necessary for you to tolerate abuse. An abusive phone call? Click. Abuse during a visit? See you when you're feeling better, mom".

For now, maybe sending a card every few weeks?

I’m sorry you never had the mother you needed and deserved. Sadly, she will only change for the worse now, between dementia, poor mental health, and the other issues of aging she’ll be increasingly difficult. No one can blame you for backing off. There are some here who provide caregiving from a safe for them distance. It’s done by visiting the place where they live, checking in with staff, asking questions and getting an idea of how the person is doing, how the care is going, and then leaving without actually visiting them. It’s up to you if you can handle this. I wish you well and healing for yourself

Ditto to BarbBrooklyn's wise words. You have done yeoman's work on your mom's behalf so please rest in that fact. Also, you mention your own sobriety (yay!) but have you considered there may be a co-dependency at work between you two? Maybe Al-Anon may be a support that is helpful to you during this challenging time in your life. May you gain peace in your heart.

You are taking care of your own mental health. And, good for you.

My Mom’s Memory Care is very good about emailing, texting, and sending pictures. That may be another good way to go for now.

Best wishes.

My dad is 94 and in skilled nursing. I am his legal guardian.. His dementia is getting worse. I don't call like I used to because it only agitates him. If I call him, it starts him calling, and calling, and calling. Then the "get me out of here!" starts. I've discussed this with his geriatric psych and she's in agreement. I need to stay away. However, my siblings can call and they have pleasant conversations with him. I get all the crap because he knows I hold all the control.. I don't feel bad or guilty. I know his needs are being taken care of. And my life is much more peaceful. You need to do what you need to do to take care of YOU. Don't feel guilty. Boundaries, boundaries, BOUNDARIES!! Going to counseling about this all these years has helped. I have 9-1/2 years sobriety and would never let him get me to the point that I need a drink. Do your readings in 'the big book ' and take care of YOU.

RobertK1,

My thoughts and prayers are with you in this very difficult situation. You are doing exactly what is needed to keep yourself safe and give yourself a chance to thrive. You were dealt a hand, throughout your life, with many pitfalls, and you are strong!! Many congratulations on your ongoing sobriety!!

Would it help to see your status with your Mom as your *daily* choice for no contact, rather than as a “forever” decision? Giving yourself a chance to adapt to your own needs, as they become apparent, could be your best strategy.

Your mother’s perceived needs *cannot* supersede yours. What your brother is/isn’t doing *cannot* be your concern as much as *your* needs are your concern.

My husband presently is in his second month in a facility. Although he is haranguing me daily about wanting to come home, I’m reminding myself he is the love of my life, he is safer where he is, I am safer without him here, and his condition has presented ongoing impediments to his loving interactions with me. He’s usually paranoid and belligerent now.

Be well. Persevere.

Your Mom has a Dementia which will get worse. She has lost the ability to reason. She is in the best place she can be. I agree, you have gone over and above. Look at it like this, she is where she is because of decisions she has made. Because of the way she has treated people. She does not have the ability to love, just take so people end up walking away.

You have done good. Drs have told you she needs more care than u can give. If you feel its in your best interest to let the State take over her care, then do it. She has another son, let him step up to the plate.

And yes, those words bother you. You think you have gotten passed the way things were as a kid, but you don't. Its time u take care of yourself. You can walk away knowing she is safe and cared for.

Being 'no contact' is not the same as 'cutting off', imo. 'No contact' is a decision made to protect yourself when you have been abused/neglected... 'Cutting off' is when you stop contact with someone else because it suits your own selfish interests. (A narcissist is more likely to 'cut off'; his victim more likely to need 'no contact' [self preservation].) The narcissist's victim, by definition, is not a selfish person; the victims are usually too selfless for their own well-being. Please listen to your own feelings: despite what the narcissist tried to instill (eg. your feelings don't count, only mommy's do), your feelings DO count! And if your feelings tell you it is better when you have been 'no contact' for three weeks, then what is really going on is that you need to stay away from that unhealthy interaction with your parent. Parents are just like anyone else; they EARN your love and respect and support by giving you love, respect and support. If your parent didn't do that/doesn't do that, they have no entitlement to you, to your love and support. Stay strong. Trust your own feelings. You are going in the right direction.

Your mother is never going to change. She has dementia on top of her mental health issues. Her needs are only going to increase. There may come a point where her dementia is so advanced that she stops being hostile toward you, the person who cared for her, but no one can predict when or if that will happen.

You have accepted reality while she is not capable of accepting reality. My advice to you is to continue not speaking to her, continue to protect your sobriety (congrats!), and continue doing what is best for her, which is residing in the longterm care facility.

Congratulations on your 2 years of sobriety!!! You treat your sobriety with the 'one day at a time' mentality, so that's how you need to treat the situation with your NM too............with the one day at a time mentality. Don't tell yourself you will 'never' speak to her again; just that for TODAY you will choose not to deal with her & the chronic venom & BS she dishes out. If you try to use the 'never' and 'forever' words, you tend to overwhelm yourself with the finality of the decision you've made (right?) whereas using the 24 hour approach is a whole lot easier on the brain and on the heart. I know from where I speak, unfortunately. I have a narcissistic mother AND a very addictive personality (gee I wonder why?) with 13 years of sobriety this time around, and 9 years the last time around.

"Last time around" I thought it would be a good idea to 'drink some wine' while on a trip to Italy with my teenage son for 2 weeks. Yeah, no.........the alcoholic mentality that says 'what harm can it do? you have 9 years of sobriety under your belt' is the same mentality that GOT me into the doors of AA to begin with. And it took me 7 MORE years to get BACK to AA after making that superbly bad decision about 'drinking some wine' in Italy. Live and learn, right?

I moved my parents back to Colorado to be near me in 2011; I am an only child so the choice was non-existent. My father was a dear dear man and my mother came along with the deal. He passed away in 2015 and mother is 94 and still alive, living in a Memory Care ALF with pretty advanced dementia these days. She was put on Cymbalta 2 weeks ago and has pretty much turned into a different person........much softer and less anxiety ridden and venomous. She even told me she 'missed me so much' the other day, which truly floored me. I really hope the new meds will salvage a tiny bit of this relationship before she passes away so I won't have a horrible last memory of our final time together.

There are some times I'd love to have a drink, to tell you the truth, but it's not an option. If I have to hang up the phone to save my peace & sanity, I do. Whatever YOU have to do, do it. Your sobriety comes FIRST. Otherwise, YOU may make a foolish decision to 'drink some wine' one day and boom, off the wagon you go. Back into the clutches of a dark place you don't want to return to.

Your mother is safe & being cared for in a facility that's staffed 24/7. You've done enough. Call the director of nursing once in a while for an update on your mother's status, if you so desire. Send her a card once in a while, if you feel compelled to do so. But stay out of her sight and off of the phone; erase the voice mails or listen to the first couple of words to get an idea of her 'mood', then hit 7 if it's ugly. Let the SNF know you'd like to be informed if she passes away, and that's that.

It may sound 'cold', but this is your LIFE that's on the line here. Not all mothers should have had children. Not all mothers are warm & fuzzy creatures who have their children's best interests at heart. Some are mean & nasty & drive their children to drink & use unhealthy substances to cope with their ugliness. Now is the time to say ENOUGH to all of it, my friend.

Wishing you the best of luck moving forward.

It is so good that you have not begun therapy to comb out what you want for your life going forward, Robert. Soon enough that therapist will have you off of the same old stories you have formed such a well trod path through your mind. There are many forms of habitual thinking and behavior. Some we use to keep ourselves from facing the discomfort of learning another way. I so well remember the day my therapist said "Well, I am tired of the same old stories about the same old people now, and I don't want to hear any more about X, Y, and Z. Now I want to hear about you, and what you want going forward.
You know, I was furious. I felt like someone had taken my entire scrabble gameboard and thrown it up into the air. I had no idea what to say. That was the beginning for me. If you don't leave your therapist that day, if you work for the future, there is much joy ahead of you.
As to cutting her off, I suggest spending minimal time with her, training her toward more cheer by hanging up quickly when she is "in a mood" and telling her "Speak to you when things seems a bit better Mom. Love you. Bye"
It's time now that things aren't all about Mom and what she thinks and about others and about what they think. It is time to figure out who Robert is and what he would like to do with his life.
I wish you the best. It's the adventure of a lifetime, therapy.

At this point in your life, you do not need your mother's abuse. Not talking to her is sound advice. However, you can call the facility to get updates and make sure her needs are being addressed. In that way, you can make sure she is cared for without the negative interactions. When you feel stronger, I would suggest trying exchanging letters; you don't have to deal with face-to-face negativity.

Here’s a ‘middle of the road’ option.

1) Write a letter to your mother putting down in black and white what you have done for her, what the doctors have told you, and that her suspicions of you are not correct. Include in it that you will be sending her cards, but won’t be answering the phone for a while. Sign the letter and date it, and keep a copy. You can use photocopies of your copy to show anyone else relevant, now or in the future, about the correct situation right now. Post the original now.

2) Buy a pack of at least 20 cards or postcards, and the stamps for them. Stamp and address them now, with a friendly note of something in each like ‘I hope that you are finding things to enjoy in this difficult time’ or ‘I hope that you had some sort of celebration' for Easter, July 4, etc etc. Number them, post one of these every week until they run out, or perhaps give the batch to someone else who can post one a week for you.

This gives you a record of the current truth, plus a contact for the next few months that gets to your mother but is low impact for you. With luck, it should give both of you time for things to calm down, and will help you to know that you have done your best and don’t need to feel any guilt.

It's a middle step between 'cutting off' and staying a victim. It might work!!

Stick to your belief in what is necessary now for you. This attacking behaviour is very common when someone goes into a care facility, they think they can do more than they are able to, they don't want to get old and incapable, but eventually she will come round- or she will be miserable - but getting on with getting the best out of life with the abilities and disabilities she has is something she has to decide to do. You cannot improve things that happen due to age, her frustration will mean you are in the wrong whatever you do. So get on with your life, she is being looked after, is fed, warm, and has people around. You have done what you can and Dr says she needs that care so don't go against it, just leave her to settle, phone (personally I would say no more than once every two weeks) and talk as long as she is civil, and tell her you are going if she is going to be rude, and hopefully once she realises things are not going to change she has the choice of how she makes her life.

I understand. My mother went into assisted living about a month ago. She’s unhappy and is verbally abusive also. It’s the best thing for her since she can no longer be alone, but she doesn’t see it that way. I want to talk to her, but it’s never a good conversation. It’s just awful.

Congrats on the 2 years recovery! Hang on to that!

"...seemed like a good and necessary idea at the time..."
You know those expressions, "the road to H is paved with good intentions" or "well laid plans of mice and men"... Obviously there was a reason for those expressions.

"I have since been advised by every doctor who had seen her that she can no longer get the support she needs at home and needs 24/7 care and supervision."

No matter what SHE says or thinks, these are experts advising you, so you've done the right thing - no need to feel guilt. You tried having her in the home, needed help. You sought the help and they said she's beyond what you can provide. No need to beat yourself up OR let her browbeat you either. Best to leave the care to those who can provide what she needs, just be the oversight.

Since all her calls are verbally abusive, have you considered blocking her number? Talk with the staff regarding this and let them know that if there are any medical or other issues, they can call you, but you'll be blocking her phone calls because of the abuse. They've seen it all and more. They'll understand. Just knowing she called and/or left a message will get under your skin. Best to prevent it, at least for now. If she "improves", you can reconsider.

I see you one brother and raise you another! I've been doing 99.9% of what needed doing, when mom was still in her condo and after she moved to MC. Six years. Verbal abuse, physical abuse, can't or won't visit mom, from the brothers, even though she is a fairy princess compared to your mother! The only thing I can say is that my life was MUCH less stressful when I more or less cut off contact with the two of them. Getting angry that they weren't helping, visiting or even listening only impacted ME, so I managed to let that go. I can't make them visit mom or help, so I just took care of everything and visited her often, before the virus locked us out. I didn't concern myself with the two of them anymore. (love the "appendix" description!) She just recently passed, so when the paperwork is done and the "checks are in the mail", I am TOTALLY DONE with both of them. Who needs that kind of crap, esp from a family member. Nope.


"...now she is contrite and apologetic but that’s just her manipulative ways. It won’t last if she doesn’t get what she wants."
You are correct. Many people do this. "Walking on eggshells" until some time passes and then we're back to the usual. My ex was like that. It's usually just a ruse, until they think the wind is blowing their way again, then it's back to the "usual." Don't buy what she's selling. It's all part of the "game", but it can't be played if you refuse to participate!

Given what you've said about your brother, it isn't likely he will take on the role. If at all possible, cut off contact for both of them, at least for now, but remain the "contact" point for mom and the facility. Block their phone numbers. Work with staff and explain the situation with her. Caring doesn't have to be done at home.

Even though she may not really deserve a caring loving son, she has one and he can try to ensure she gets proper care, even if she didn't do it for him. You are not her, you are BETTER than she is/was. No contact removes the worst of the abuse, but still allows you to "care" in your own way. If given enough time you still feel overwhelmed, then it might be time to throw the towel in.

Although others said it will only get worse, it may not, it may get better. Dementia affects every person in unique ways. There are similar symptoms, but the overall picture is different for each one. Some mild mannered moms become whirling dervishes. Some mean nasty moms become sweet old ladies! Some of the things I've seen and heard from my mother were typical, other things threw me for a loop! So many times staff would say how sweet she was and I would ask who body-snatched my mother?? Your mom could become "better" in the behavioral sense, as time goes on.

I went through this with my mom. The first few months after moving in are rough. It took my mother about 5-6 months to calm down and stop yelling at me on the phone.
Is she safe? Is she receiving proper care? If yes, then relax. You did good.

“Ok Mom, seems like today’s not a good day to talk, I’ll call you in a few days.”

Rinse and repeat as needed.

I have not spoken to my Mother in SEVEN YEARS. Do not feel guilty. Think of not speaking to your Mother as "self-preservation". A Geriatric Case Worker took care of everything and now my Mother is safe, warm and fed in a Memory Care facility.

My own decision to block my mother’s phone number and not have contact was a result of a lifetime of abuse I just decided I wasn’t willing to have disrupt my life anymore. The verbal abuse during her old age still causes me emotional distress. I manage her affairs but don’t visit or speak with her. I do have helpful family that will visit when necessary. Don’t feel guilty, and stop looking for affirmation from others about your decision to stop speaking to her. You need to do what is healthy for you. And you know she is in a facility that is keeping her safe, fed and clean. You haven’t abandoned her or left her in a bad situation. The facility has a way to contact you if there’s an emergency. We feel sad because it’s sad that we don’t have the loving mother-daughter relationship we all wish we had. But that will never happen. So go and make healthy relationships elsewhere and insure your sobriety. You have done more than enough to get her to this place.

Time for you and your family......you have waited long enough for that. So sorry that you have to go through therapy for this...you did all the right things.

Her treatment toward you sounds cruel; an abusive biological reproducer does not constitute a parent. You must do what is best for yourself and live your own life. Also, do not use your abusive mom as an excuse to break sobriety. That is on you.

Children not wanting contact with an abusive parent is not uncommon; in fact, in a psychiatric facility, the visiting justice can appoint a legal guardian for consent purposes. Children are not obligated to care for a parent. In other words, a person reaps what they have sowed.

Children as not obligated to care for parents because they were not asked to be brought into this world.

This is my story from the first paragraph to the last and then some. I understand what you are going through. I will soon post my situation.

congrats on you being sober for so long. Do not put yourself back into a position where you will go back to that habit. It does sound like you were the one to always help but never appreciated and now being attacked verbally is "abuse" that no one has to put up with. She is probably mad at herself for letting things go the way she did, but that is no excuse to take it out on the one that has helped over the years. and she does sound selfish to not want to help her hubby after so many years just because he is getting older......did she ever wonder about her age and who is taking care of her? probably not. Either way...........IF you are feeling better without that stress.........then good for you and continue for what makes YOU feel better emotionally. Congrats on getting therapy also, it will help. You cannot change her. If you want you can send her cards like at special holidays but other than that you do not need to engage in the verbal abuse. People never know what someone else has been through in their life and not everyone can step up and take care of someone even with abuse being thrown their way. Words cut deeper than physical abuse and take longer to heal. Keep working on yourself and best wishes. Do not second guess that you did anything wrong............YOU are a good person, doing your best in a world full of all kinds of stuff going on, but that doesn't mean you need to keep taking verbal abuse from someone (regardless if they have dementia or not). Prayers for you and wishing you luck.

Just when you think you have a story that no one will believe you post this!   Mine is a long drawn out story as well with the same dysfunctional family.  It is way overdue that you make yourself a priority.  Cut your brother off and move forward.  Don't go back on your decision on your Mom.  And you need to get someone to talk to weekly at least for awhile so you don't kill yourself with the decisions.  AA is free and a weekly or bi weekly meeting should keep you on track.  You are worth it!

You have a lot of wonderful advice below. So many of us have nasty manipulative hurtful mothers! Yikes. One thing I would like to add, that I have dealt with myself, is the sadness and the guilt at separating from her. I have struggled with those two emotions my entire life, as I have struggled to erect and maintain boundaries with my mother. I am amazed at how hard it has been for me to let go of THE DREAM OF A NICER MOTHER. I am in my early 60s, she is still alive, and still can wound me terribly. The FANTASTY of having a loving generous caring mother is so hard for me to let go of. I have held on to it. I needed to as a child. (My father an authoritarian narcissist.) That is the loss that is so hard, at least for me - to LET GO OF THE DREAM MOTHER. It is painful to do. The dream mother is what kept me coming back to re-connect in a deeper way, which then lead to nasty manipulation from her and pain. It has also helped me to read about borderline personalities because I believe it fits my mothers' behavior and I find that intellectual understanding of her behavior helpful. Please take care of you, and your son.

RobertK1, I would say you've answered your own question! It looks as if there is nothing to gain by keeping in touch with your mother.

Just curious--is her furniture anything special or extremely valuable? If not, you could say "yeah, right!" when she accuses you of trying to take it.

Someone commented: “Stop looking for affirmation from others about your decision to stop speaking to your mom”. This cannot be emphasized enough.
You’ve done what needed to be done for the sake of you. Who else is going to look after you?
I’m not sure what you’re looking to hear. If you’re a Christian believer, know in your heart you are loved, chosen and wanted by the Most High God. He calls you by name. You have worth and dignity. You matter!
Please take time to care for yourself.

Lung disease can contribute to psych issues and is a lot to take on 24/7. You are following the doctor's recommendations, so your decision is in her best interest. The fallout with your mother goes with the territory, unfortunately. Your relationship with your father, your son, yourself, and sobriety are important too. You've done a good job.

Congratulations on maintaining 2 years of sobriety. That is a commendable achievement and protecting that does come first.

I am not sure who the people are that are suggesting you continue contact even on an occasional basis. But they do not bear listening to.

I cannot imagine how horrific it was for you to find your mother after her suicide attempt.

You are 100% allowed to go no contact with your mother. Additionally, I would block her phone number. I know you said you do not answer, nor listen to the messages, but I know from personal experience, just getting the calls can be triggering. If there is an emergency the facility will call you.