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My sister has been caring for Mom for years. Mom has demetia and is a diabetic. She needs to be in a nursing home. She was in one for a month and a half and thrived. How can I make my sister send her where she needs to go? My sister is a good loving person and cares for Mom, but needs the money. I believe this is a big part of why she won't let Mom go-Mom's pension hels support the household. I am quite sure I am not the first person to be in a situation like this. Any advice from anyone?

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Very touchy situation here. Is mom happy where she is? Does mom's doctor have a visiting nurse come by once a week.? Is it time for Hospice?
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Not everyone is cut out to be a full time caregiver. My mom did not want to go to a nursing home and I cared for her full time. There is a connection between your mother and sister that is one of trust and caring. Maybe you cannot see yourself in the role your sister has chosen and that is all right. But your sister cares and I can tell you from personal experience that caring for someone is the hardest and most rewarding experience a person can have. I suggest you try it for a few days and after that give your sister a big hug and support her decision. No nursing facility can compare to being cared for by a loving daughter.
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How is it that your mother thrived in a nursing home and not under the care of your sister in her own home?
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For me Nursing home is an absolute last resort. I am not sure where the perception of mom needing to go into a home. I am glad to see she received great results when she was there for a month. There are several options and the prolong the overall well being of your mom I feel options should be reviewed. What are the exact care needs of your mom and what is it that your sister is not doing? Could your mom benefit from a day support program? Could your mom benefit from having an aide come into the home and provide additional care? Many people have their own reservations when it come to placing a loved one into a facility. This would be the perfect time to have a civil conversation about the care of your mom with you sister.
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If your sister took upon herself caring for your mother, she should be more than just loving daughter. My heart dropped as you mentioned your mom "thriving" in the nursing home. That means she does not have adequate care where she is now.
Loving your parent is not enough to become the best and right caregiver for mom or dad. It comes with all different skills and knowledge. If you feel that your mother does not have proper care you should talk to your sister and ask if she would be willing to learn how to be that best caregiver. Find local support group for her to attend. Bring palliative care to help her. Maybe even find short term classes for caregiver where your sister can learn and become more professional.
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What criteria are you using when you say your mum 'thrived' when in the nursing home for 1.5 months? And what were the circumstances that put her there for that length of time? Did you visit her during that time in the same way (same frequency as you would visit normally)? It's very easy for onlookers, which is what you are, to make an objective judgment in this case. Surely the best thing is to ask your mum whether she preferred being in the nursing home to being with your sister, rather than forming this value judgment. What would happen to your mum's pension if she went into a care home? If she is happier with her daughter, and this suits her daughter's family, there doesn't seem to be an issue. So, you need to get hard fact to prove that your mum 'needs' to be in a nursing home before convincing yourself that this is the case. To be honest I don't believe that until you've actually done what your sister is doing, you will actually have the ability to decide what your mum does and doesn't need.
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There is unknown information here. Your sister has taken on a huge burden to care for your mother. I am going to assume her care is adequate at home because nothing was mentioned about it being inadequate. The fact she is the one doing the care may be keeping her from having to go on medicaid in a nursing home. If she is not providing good care, then her pension and medicare should be used to help with care she needs. On the other hand, your sister would be wise to keep very good record keeping to justify taking money from your mother. If she is in it just for money, shame on her.
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So you think your sister is putting her life on hold taking care of your mom for the money? You should try it for a week and see if you find the money a reward enough. Strange though you said your mom thrived being away from her.. Doyou think she is neglecting your mom? Maybe you should spend more time at your sister's and help out and see first hand what is going on.
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Because your mom helps support your sister's household may very well be a reason why your sister doesn't want your mom to go into a nursing home but whatever the reason if your sister has been the main caregiver to your mom she needs to be on board with any decisions that need to be made. You can't force your sister to do anything.

My dad lived with me for 5 years and financially we were roommates. His income definitely contributed to the household as I would have never gotten that house had it not been for the fact that I needed a place where I could care for my dad. Once my dad went downhill and I couldn't care for him anymore he ended up in a NH by way of the hospital. Financially the bottom dropped out from underneath me and it was a terrifying mess. Lesson? Never hitch yourself financially to an elderly person because circumstances can change in an instant. It was non-stop stress for many weeks, packing up the house, finding a new place to live, getting a job....But I did it. It can be done. Caring for someone with dementia vs not having the financial help may be a decision your sister doesn't want to make and apparently caring for your mom with dementia seems to outweigh the financial stress if your mom moved into a nursing home.
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I agree that nursing homes should be the last resort, although maybe your mom was in a great facility, since she had such great results. Statistics have shown us over and over again that people live better & longer with quality supports to "age in place." So, if mom wants to be home with your sister, maybe there are some ways you can help support that situation to be the best place for her. I think the best way to do this would be to make sure your sister has a ton of support.

Maybe your sister simply just doesn't know as much of the technical caregiving "stuff" your mother received in the nursing home. Maybe she needs some caregiver training to better understand diabetes: the meds, how to cook for it, etc. Maybe your sister needs some dementia training- many local communities offer conferences and trainings on how to care for someone with dementia. (Or check out Teepa Snow on her website or on YouTube- she's fantastic!) I'd suggest that you AND your sister do any training together if possible, so she's not being singled out or made to feel like she's not doing a good job. Even though you are not the full-time caregiver for your mom, you are a care partner, and this is info that would be helpful for you as well.
Maybe your sister would be able to provide even better care if she had some time to herself. Many people who are not caregivers cannot fathom how much time, effort & energy goes into caregiving. Many caregivers get sick and pass away before their care receiver, simply because they stop taking care of their own physical, emotional and mental health needs. If you live in the area, maybe you or other family members could spend time with your mother to give your sister regular breaks. Also many states have something called the Family Caregiver Support Program, which may be able to provide respite care to family caregivers like your sister. This respite could be in the home, at a day care facility, or even short-term overnight stays at care facilities. The point is to give the caregiver some time to care for him- or herself; like cars, we people can't run on empty gas tanks. Check with your local Area Agency on Aging for more information on Family Caregiver Support Programs, or other local resources for caregivers.
And I agree with FiveStarCares; maybe you could sit down with your sister and let hre know your concerns and that you are here to support her in providing the best care for mom. Ask your sister what *she* feels she needs in order to do that, and then try to help her as best you can.
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Unless you can prove your mom is in danger - I don't think you want to put your family through legal struggles- you really don't have much to leverage your mom to a home.

I know as I have found myself in the same situation. Family members want my 88 year old father to live with my 93 year old aunt. My attorneys are saying that there isn't much I can do,
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1. Have an independent assessment performed by a licensed professional about what is in your mother's best interest. Ensure that the assessment considers all relevant medical evidence, as well as psychological assessment of the patient and the relevant caregivers
2. The assessment should consider not only your mother's health and symptoms, but also the possibility that you have raised that the motivations of others (your sister and you, in particular) may be affecting the nature of the care being given.
3. If the assessment concludes that the situation should change, then you have several options: 1) if there is a Power of Attorney for Health Care, the agent under that power should probably follow the advice of the assessment. If that is not you, then the agent should be provided with the assessment; 2) if the agent does not follow the assessment, most states have procedures in their Probate Codes to involve a judge to compel the agent to provide for the principal as required in the principal's best interest; 3) if there is no Power of Attorney for Health Care (or Advance Health Care directive), and Mom has capacity, she can decide whether to follow the instructions of the report; 4) if Mom does not have capacity and there is no POAHC or AHCD, then an interested party (varies from State to State, but generally a child will have standing as an interested party) can bring a conservatorship proceeding to appoint a conservator who can legally make decisions on behalf of an incapacitated person (conservatee or ward). This is known as a "conservatorship over the person." The person receiving the pension and paying the caregiver(s) is called the "conservator over the estate." They can be the same person or you can seek to have an independent person serve in each capacity to prevent the motivations of a financially interested person from clouding their judgment about what is in the best interest of the principal.
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I moved in with my parents a couple of years agosince then my moms health physically and emotionally has declined rapidlyall she does is cry and sleep all day I've talked to dad and he doesn't know what to do. HELP!!
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Unfortunatly I believe often this kind of disagreement it a power issue , where one sibling feels the other who is a caregiver has more control. Try to put your mom's happiness first and leave your parent cared for by a loving daughter.
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Cheryl and Elizabeth, I agree.
What is a reason someone needs to be pulled out of the comfort of a loving home into a nursing home? Do you suspect abuse? I can see if if the caregiver is ill or elderly themselves of course. My Moms doctor told me many times how lucky my Mom is. A daughters care is better than a nursing home and no one does it for the money. It might have started out that way but it wouldnt have lasted! omg I would pay a million bucks (that I dont have, lol) to have someone take as good as care of Mom as I do!! Nursing homes dont give the same care a daughter would. For your Moms best interest, she should stay put, and help her, give her a weekend off a month or something.
I am not accusing you of this---My sister also wanted my Mom in a nursing home, you know why? so that SHE could visit whenever SHE wanted without coming into my home. This was a totaly selfish act on her part. SHE wants to "drop by" when "she" wants and she has to ask me now and she hates that. (yes a control thing) So, my Mom should go to a nursing home , a strange place, with all different Aides, less care, germs and infections, for my sister? I think not. My sister is a nurse and has never once offered to help me, I asked and begged for years, always an excuse! Seriously, just talk to her, help her and be ever SO grateful that she is taking care of your Mother! Being a daughter of a Mom in my home with late stage Alz/dementia I can tell you its the hardest job in the world. There is no planned breaks, there is nighttime bedwetting even though you spent a hundred dollars on the best diapers, there is cooking , cleaning, feeding, pureeing, laundry up the ying yang, hand holding when there is confusion, singing to them, and diareahea on your feet, and we still do it, I would say thats called Unconditional Love. Help or hire help for your sister, she certainly deserves it, and be ever so thankful to her, she deserves it. Again, the Golden Rule, what would you want if you were in Mom's shoes? I dont know about others but when I get my Mom all cleaned up in her nice warm nightgown in bed in her nice warm bed, and sing her to sleep, I feel so good too, makes it all worth it, some how! lol
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msweet23, can you tell us what, exactly, Mom would get in a nursing home that isn't being provided where she is?
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There's no problem with the sister's behaviour itself - msweet says that the sister is a good, loving person. I suspect it comes down mainly to the definition of "thrived." Regular hours, a team of people providing care and expertise, dietetically approved food, a range of stimulating and health-promoting activities - the sort of place my SIL dreams of, in other words - can lead to an older person thriving. Thriving, I would sceptically say, in the way that a bullock thrives in a finishing pen. You can get them in lovely condition by controlling every aspect of their lives.

But then there's the definition of what makes mother happy. Much, much harder to put your finger on. Especially when the person has dementia and can't say for herself; but actually it is hard for the person anyway. What's she supposed to say? "I can't stand my daughter la second longer, she drives me nuts and I'm bored out of my skull"? It's never going to happen.

I'm facing an issue similar to this, except that it's I who am having the argument with myself. We're about to move house. In deciding where we go next, I aim to give mother the free choice of: either buy her own home and I'll live with her as her caregiver; or move to a good residential setting and I'll hover around, or skip town, depending on how well she settles in. We're having a look at a few options, and I hope she'll try them out. Sincerely, I am content with either. But I'm not optimistic that she'll base her choice on her own, real wishes. Far more likely she'll try to guess what I, or my siblings, or the cat, or the postman come to that, think is best.

Msweet, my rudeness above notwithstanding, I do understand your view that for your mother the pros and cons come down in favour of the NH: it's a valid point of view, and a good NH can be an excellent place for a person with dementia to reach the end of her days. They can accommodate to her changing needs, they can call on extra resources - there are all kinds of points in their favour.

But at the NH they don't love her. And for many old people the limitations of a family home are more than offset by just being at home, not 'in a home'. I think probably the best thing you can do is research alternatives and be ready to suggest them if and when your sister runs out of steam. And meanwhile keep in close touch, and be nice (I'm sure you are already). Best of luck, sorry if I've rambled.
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You state that your sister has been taking care of your mom for years. What is the difference now? The dementia? Are supportive enough with your sister? Have you given her time off and offered to help with your mom? Are there other professionals involved in your mom's life? I've had my mother for over a year living with me, before that she was in an ALF and my brother offered half of what she would leave us just so I would look after her because he wanted none of the responsibility. Let me just say that what good caregivers do whether for money or love or both no amount of money in the world is enough to reward them. I am about to move my mother to an ALF because I can no longer sustain a full time job, a marriage and a normal life and take good care of my mother at the same time. I will never forget this year of my life, the most painful, challenging and compassion filled year of my life. My mother has now become my child, completely dependent on what I do for her or allow others to do under my always watchful eye. I honor those who undertake this great task, not for a year but for years as your sister has done.
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My mom is thriving in a nursing home. Did your mom start to show worsening signs of dementia and a weight loss, when your sister moved her? My mom was not bathing (ever) at home and was only eating McDonalds sausage biscuits. There is something to say for 24/7 care and getting cleaned up and dressed every day.

But, convincing your sister of the benefits is tough. Some people like to micro manage the nursing home staff. I made that mistake several years ago. I have stepped back, now.
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Instead of jumping the gun and putting mom in a nursing home could you instead offer more assistance to your sister to make than environment work to it's full potential. Maybe with additional help from you your mom would not have to be subjected to the nursing home environment which should be used only for those who's care requires 24/7 assistance that a home environment can not provide.
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What does your Mom want? Does she want to stay home or live in an ALF. Most people want to stay out of these facilities. Some places accept medicaid from day 1 but the turnover and patient per worker ratio is high as is worker turnover, and the staff never really knows the needs of the resident. At home, there is a continuity of care with one care giver 24/7. You have to be uber wealthy to be in a top notch facility. once you enter into long term care, that becomes your whole life. I have 4 relatives who recently went to a nursing home after they experienced a fall at their home. They hated it and never forgave the people who put them there. They were neither physically or emotionally better off. I have an immense amount of respect for care givers. It is a very demanding job. Your Mom is not necessarily better off at a long term facility. Most states will assist with a home health care nurse and physical therapy to assist a caregiver. Some states, like Indiana, help out monetarily.
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Be supportive of your sister. Maybe mom likes it there and sister might need some in home help caring for her. You run out of hours in the day to do everything when the person you are caring for operates in slow motion. In home health, obtained through her MD would see if something needs to happen. I have worked in nursing homes. The staff changes often because the pay is low, the patient to staff ratio is higher than 1 to 1 which your mom gets right now.
Take over care of your mom for a week and give your sister a vacation (which she probably needs) and you will also see hands on what it is like for a week (years are even harder).
Until you are supportive, your sister may feel like she is both doing battle to protect herself and mom, while taking care of mom. All the while her employable skills ebb away.
Start with, "Is there anything I can help you with?"
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It may be the wrong question, pipruby, but you have introduced me to the delightful thought of Himalayan Pink Salt (whatever next? Alpine Baby Blue? Andean Purple?) and I am grateful :)
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sometimes the 'thriving' comes from getting better to get the h*** back home.....my dad was in for 6 weeks post stroke....he was a trooper!
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Putting your Mom in a nursing home is a guarantee of failing health and death. You are talking 1 Aide to 8-12 patients, feeding on a schedule and not taking 1-2 hours to feed them, waking them up all night long to drag them to the bathroom, infections, diseases, and no love. I know its hard for your sister, I have worked fulltime and have had my mom 6 years, have had two children get married, have had 2 grandchildren and havea great supportive husband of 37 years. I dont want to make my life be on hold, as much as it is, I am trying to make it work out, I hire morning help and am trying to hire weekend help for Moms care. It can be done, people should just do it, its their parent no matter what. Hope your mom stays with your sister and I hope she is getting help or uses her Moms ss to hire help.
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Reverseroles, I am sorry that you have had that experience with NHs. My Mother has had the opposite experience. Yes, there is one in town that I would avoid, but we are quite happy with my Mother's care. She is the best she has been in years.
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