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Mom has Alzheimer's and in late stage. Her step kids both want to take a portion of her estate. They both feel she will not need it because she won't live more than 5 more years. I believe she could live longer. I don't need the money but my step sisters do need the money. When did it become ok to take inheritance before a person is resting in peace?

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If they believe she won’t have long to live, then they won’t have long to wait. Ignore anything that will cause more division in the family. Everyone will regret it later. Just do the right thing with love.
Pray for God’s perfect timing and plan.
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lucyinthesky Jul 2019
Great answer....your first sentence is on point & says it all! Its the profound and simple straight forward and truthful reply.

Well said...luv the KISS theory....
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This seems very much WRONG and you should have an attorney.
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"When did it become ok to take inheritance before a person is resting in peace?"
NEVER.

Like others said, I believe your step sister is either misinformed, lying, confused or has not presented the full "case" to her "family law attorney." Perhaps she is just plain greedy! She also needs to have a better understanding of what a POA does (perhaps you need to tell her):

https://info.legalzoom.com/duties-power-attorney-20228.html

"Agent Responsibilities
The agent has a legal duty to the principal; he must act in the principal's interests and not his own when acting as an agent. Agents should keep records of all duties performed on behalf of the principal in case the principal or a court asks for an accounting of the agent's activities."

She should be handling mom's finances/affairs in the best interest of MOM. Taking her money now because she might die soon, doesn't need it or can't use it is just plain and simple GREED. Also be aware that POA duties END at the time of death. If there is a will, it should name an executor.

Questions for you:
1) Does mom have a will? All assets will go through probate and be allocated to remaining bills, burial, etc. and THEN to her heirs (with/without will).
2) If mom has a will, even if y'all are named as equal beneficiaries, the assets are distributed AFTER death (and probate/bills/etc.) Do you have a copy of it? Does POA understand her duties STOP on mom's death?
3) If there is a will, are the beneficiaries the same as those who would TAKE money now? If not, those beneficiaries are going to be a mean nasty bunch to deal with later!
4) Has mom officially been declared incompetent? If so, she CANNOT make that "decision" to gift, which is the ONLY way the POA could do the distribution. Children and POAs don't make that decision.
5) Is it possible for you to seek guardianship (if she isn't competent, she can't change/assign POA, but you *could* get guardianship, which would revoke any/all POA. Mom's assets can be used to pay for the attorney and court costs.
6) Does she have a prepaid burial plan to cover burial/cremation costs? If not, who is going to pay that?
7) As jacobsonbob says, if the "gifting" exceeds the Federal guidelines, y'all better hang on to some for the taxes you will have to pay!
8) If the funds are in a trust, there will ALSO be tax implications for taking it before TOD.

ALL of mom's assets should be left alone because:  
   There is no way to know how long she might live.
   Depending on what her needs are, she might need all of the funds for her care.
   IF she needs Medicaid within 5 years, she will get NOTHING until the NH is private-paid up to the total "gifted" (TAKEN.) Who is going to pay for that? You think they will??? HAH!
   If she has no burial fund, money will be needed to cover those costs.
   If she has any outstanding bills, money will be needed for those as well.

Best bet is to get a consult with an Elder Care attorney (most will give you ~30-60 minutes free first consult) and ask these questions. For the most part, besides the ethical and moral issues, the responses here are fairly consistent that this is a big NO-NO legally. Gifting would be mom's decision, IF she is competent, BUT a POA should still consider what is best/right to do and can override that. I would also inquire as to whether you could request an accounting of mom's assets, if you think anything is amiss.

If you don't feel you can take on the legal issues yourself (going for guardianship), I would at least call her bluff. Let her pay all the fees for taking you to court as a judge isn't likely to find in her favor (be sure to document mom's condition), and be sure to ask if POA is using mom's funds to bring this to court, which is ALSO wrong! The judge could make her pay back everything AND could order an audit to ensure she IS performing her POA duties properly (refer back to the legalzoom quote)! She's be in some deep doo-doo if she's pussyfooting with mom's assets.
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DesertCatlady Jul 2019
Excellent reply! I hope this helps her!
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The yearly amount for gifting finder IRS rules does not apply under Medicaid regulations. If parent is gifting you the tax-free gift amount, Medicaid will make every effort to recover those funds.
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disgustedtoo Jul 2019
From what I have read, Medicaid will see that the money had been gifted (taken) and will penalize the recipient by denying any funds until the NH is private-paid up to the total amount "gifted". They'd go broke trying to chase down all these "grifters", and likely the money would all be spent anyway (greedy people are quite often irresponsible people - they get a windfall, it'd be gone in a flash!) The only mention I have seen for "recovering" funds happens AFTER the person dies, when they go for what is left of the person's assets (house, money, etc.) to recoup what they DID pay.
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Gifting is allowed before death. If there is plenty of money - it may not matter except the recipients will have weakened her "money making machine ( investments)" . If she lives long enough to need Medicaid, everyone had better be prepared to pay the money back.
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Isthisrealyreal Jul 2019
Mom can't make those decisions at this point, so it would not be gifting it would be taking.
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Something may be getting lost in translation from the family law attorney to the stepsibling(s) to you to us.

There seems to be a lot of focus on whether your Mom will live more than five years. Are there enough assets to pay more than five years of care? That’s a lot of money. Maybe they are trying to get the “excess” out of her name in an attempt to shift to Medicaid after the five year lookback has passed?

If there isn’t that much money, clearly you wouldn’t want to cooperate in diverting money she needs for her care.

Did your Mom ever express any wishes in this area? Do you know where she fell on the continuum between “Don’t give everything to some nursing home, I want my money to go to  ____.” and “I’d never want to be on welfare (i.e., Medicaid).”

If she wouldn’t want to be on Medicaid, rely on your conscience to follow her wishes.

That leaves the situation where there is more than enough money, AND your Mom expressed a wish to avoid spending all of her own money. 

Only in the last case is there some argument for your stepsister’s approach. Does the POA allow for large “Medicaid planning” gifts? Relying on a family law attorney rather than one that specializes in elder law/medicaid doesn’t sound prudent. If you believe your Mom didn’t completely understand the differences in Medicaid care vs. private pay (location/privacy/amenities/...), you still may not want to cooperate.
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Terrifying. This is fraud.

Even if they have a legal “vehicle,” this is completely unethical and disturbing.
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Maybe or maybe not, it might help them to know what the will says. However, that is still contingent upon her needing the money for her care right now and that will determine how much is left over when she dies which is when the will can be followed after final expenses are paid. greedy! They are
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Just to address a little piece of the confusion, it sounds like Mom's money was their Dad's estate and they want to make sure the residual goes to them not you. If I got that right, you can address it legally and let everyone be friends again and take care of Mom together.
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It's not OK.
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Consult an elder law attorney! ASAP
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shame on the step kids. their care and concern for their step mom should be top priority not the money. don't give in to them. its wrong . no one knows what the future will bring and how long she may have in her life. until she passes, it is not their money.
I'm sorry the step sisters are having money issues but if your mom wanted them to have the money in advance she would of told them that.
there is many things that pop up after a person dies and that money may be needed for things such as funeral, flowers, bills, etc. their inheritance comes after all of the issues have been cleared.
mom is the priority now not her money, shame on your step sisters..
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Oh Hell No!
Sorry for my rough response but tell them just that.
Yes it can be done but if that is needed for whatever reason it needs to stay right there.
Ask them what the would do if this was not an option? Then tell them it's not. Discussion closed.
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disgustedtoo Jul 2019
"Yes it can be done" - as you said "Oh Hell No!"

It **CAN** probably be done, because anything can be done, but it is NOT what should be done. However this is NOT what a POA is assigned to do.

A POA has a financial duty to use the person's assets for their care and needs. A POA has ABSOLUTELY NO business even thinking of "gifting" or taking this woman's money before her death (and reminder to all who are not aware, POA capability dies with the person it is for.)

The mom isn't competent to make the decision to "gift" money, no one has ANY idea how long mom might live and if her assets are squandered and she needs Medicaid, she ain't getting it because of the 5 year lookback (several have said the "giftees" would have to give back... I don't think Medicaid chases people down for "gifted" monies, but what they WILL do is penalize the woman and until the NH is private-paid up to the total amount gifted, she gets nothing from Medicaid.
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It's not ok. You might want to remind them that they call it inheritance because it's what's lefter over AFTER someone dies. Pretty appalling, however it's also pretty common for people to start picking the flesh like a bunch of buzzards before the person stops breathing. Since you're asking the question, assume that you are in charge of the money for your mom - I question that you needed advice for this. Were you actually considering doing this??

Also, if her medical costs exceed what she has left, there will be a penalty in getting Medicaid to take over. Since she has late stage Alzheimer's it's pretty clear that she cannot make a decision to give her money away - so whoever is in charge (or has the capability) of taking money out of her accounts is probably going to be accountable for just giving away her assets. Not a seat I'd want to be sitting in.
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They might be trying to get around losing everything if she goes into a nursing home. There is a five-year look back, though, so if she goes into the nursing home before then, the feds will come after that money. Estate planning CANNOT begin early enough.
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It’s not ok. $$$ should only be used for her care or if house repairs necessary. What about mom’s monthly bills? If $$$ given out before her demise, & she needs Medicaid, it will be considered a gift & there will be penalties. There will be a longer time for Medicaid to pay a SNF. Don’t do it.
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I am appalled by this! Please protect your mother's interests AT ALL COSTS. Make sure you are POA or Guardian. You have no idea how much money she will require for her continued care. SMH
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I've heard of ppl who distributed monies to children prior to death to help them out, like buying a house, etc ... they stated why make them struggle & wait till we're gone, this way our grandkids are more comfortable too. Did your parents have a will/ trust in place should be the determining factor ... and them being stepchildren, unless they are listed will probably not be entitled to anything. Every situation is so unique
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disgustedtoo Jul 2019
There is a HUGE difference between competent people who decide to GIVE some of their assets to their children to help them out now and this SOB POA step sister wanting to TAKE mom's money (mom is NOT competent, so mom is not the one "gifting".)

Even if mom has a will, NEVER does one "inherit" before the person's death!

The "determining" factors here are the assets are mom's, she is not competent, there should be NO gifting (aka taking) of her assets.
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I think anyone would need advice from an Eldercare Attorney, thoroughly familiar with Rules of Medicaid. But, years back when the "Look Back" was two years, in Massachusetts, were were able to Gift her estate to the grandchildren, and the surviving children. The whole rationale is much too long, but the distribution of most her cash was divided into two parts. 1) How much could each person receives. (2) How much had to be held for before Medicaid would be eligible. And was treated as a gift, with no mention of "Rights" nor "Inheritance". Also, she was in Nursing home as an extension of the Rehab she was having, with the hope she'd eventually return to her home, which was also being held and cared for. She left no Trust nor even a Will, but we did have an active attorney making sure all the paperwork was done correctly.

That was around, 1992, as Medicaid like to change the rules like some people change their sox. So I imagine the lookback is now about 5 years (or more)?
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bunnymom Jul 2019
Yes, look-back is five years.
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It is NEVER ok to take the inheritance before the person passes. NEVER NEVER NEVER.

And 5 years is a very long time - should the need arise, Medicare will demand the monies back if they must step in with any assistance.

And we are NOT owed an inheritance. I don't know where that idea came from but no one is owed an inheritance from anyone.
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my2cents Jul 2019
Agree, agree, agree! I have never understood why anyone thinks they are owed an inheritance. Get a job, save your money, and live on what you gather together in your own life. Also all these folks out there who complain about seeing someone get food stamps or some kind of 'free' assistance, but they will go above and beyond to hide mom's assets in order to get her on 'free' medicaid. It is disgusting. (And NO, mom didn't work all her life, pay taxes, to 'earn' medicaid -- Medicaid is for people who are or have been put at a below poverty level income. It is basically the food stamp program of the health care world)
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Agree with all that has been said . However immediately send certified mail to all involved of your objection . Plainly say the money is mom’s and for any care she needs at any given time . I’m certain all of us on this site are taking it day by day, never knowing what is in store later today nevertheless tomorrow. Take a copy of your letter and proof of certified mailing to an elder affairs attorney .

When it is time for mom to leave although your heart will hurt. You would know you protected her and advocated to the end.

She took care of these step children. The money is hers to take care of her . That’s exactly how it should be used. I’d also start keeping receipts or paper trail if you spend anything for her care, grooming, doctors etc...Certified letters and Elder affairs attorney by Monday . God bless and May your mom have many good years .
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This kind of reminds me of the story of the prodigal son who wanted his inheritance NOW.
I agree with Countymouse’s response...sounds logical.
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Could your step siblings have misunderstood the lawyer? The reference to living five years makes me wonder if what they're trying to do is an irrevocable living trust, which would shelter assets not needed for the next five years so that your mother would qualify for Medicaid earlier, thus preserving those assets for her heirs? This would be something a POA could in theory arrange with a lawyer, and it makes sense that they might want the consent of all your mom's heirs to do it.
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katiekat2009 Jul 2019
Why should Medicaid pay when Mom has the assets?!
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May your mother outlive your stepsisters.
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disgustedtoo Jul 2019
Leave the assets alone AND mom outlives the stepsisters!!! Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants!!!
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Do you know who the attorney is that they SAY they have talked to? They are probably lying, no attorney would say something like that. Maybe that attorney did expand on what may happen, maybe sibs have selective hearing.

If you know who this attorney is, give the attorney a call to state your objection and reason why. Or get yourself get yourself an elder law attorney to send them a letter explaining why gifting before death is not at all appropriate. Or file an objection in court.

AND as a reminder dad could have left money to his children, but he did not. He wanted to make sure his wife had what she may need, FIRST. as it should be.
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No! It’s stealing!
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The stepsisters should also realize that assets distributed BEFORE your/their mother's death may have tax consequences that wouldn't exist if inherited AFTER her death. Of course this depends upon the amounts involved and what form they are in (cash vs stocks, for example).
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It is NOT okay to dip into funds that are expected to be left as an inheritance, while the decedent-to-be :) is still alive and no longer competent to dispose of her assets. (At this point she may be as likely to agree to give her money to a visiting therapy dog as to her family members.) The terms of her will only take effect after her death; this should be clear to your step-sister.

At least your step-sister has let you in on her plans/hope to dip into mom's money. And as POA she could easily do this. But it's probably not legal to use this money for anything other than your mother's needs. (Some states do allow PoA's to make gifts from the owner's funds.) You and she have a major conflict of opinion and she seems to have a conflict of interest. But her obligation is to your mother, not to her sister. The first thing I'd do is contact Adult Protective Services or another state office with authority and ability to act quickly to prevent any transfer of your mother's money. Then I'd engage an attorney to ensure that your mother's money will be preserved for her future care, which may entail yourself being appointed your mother's guardian with authority over her assets. (This will annul the PoA.) Good luck. Too bad that this all has probably caused a family rift.
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Unless the step kids were legally adopted or they are specifically mentioned in a will or trust they may be counting on an inheritance that is non existent.
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my2cents Jul 2019
I think the problem stems from step siblings are trying to get what belonged to their dad before poster's mom came into the picture. There is a note added above to a comment. However, mom unable to make decisions at this point, so if mom/her husband
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Is the money in some kind of irrevocable trust of which the step kids are beneficiaries? If so, they MAY be able to access the money now, legally and without ramifications, if it was set up over 5 years ago.
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Isthisrealyreal Jul 2019
Beneficiary is after death. It is not while a person is alive and could potentially need the money for their care.
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