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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Not in my world, if he's willing to do it and grandmother is OK with it. He could be a CNA in a nursing home, dealing with patients of the opposite sex. So the only question is if both parties are OK with it. If so, it's OK by me...
I'm a 61 year old man and I've had to provide this type care for my Mom on ocassion. We got through it but it was very uncomfortable for both of us. There's certainly no moral issue involved. If the young man is capable and both parties are comfortable there should be no problem although it is an unusual situation.
Let him do it. After a few months of cleaning up rotten food and filthy bathrooms, my nephew was suddenly inspired to attend college. Sometimes youth needs to see the tougher chores, flip a few fries and stand knee deep in muck before they see the value of education.
I don't think I could do it for my dad, but I never say never. You can't know what the future holds and you do what you have to do. There is nothing wrong with it, IMO. If they are okay with it, then it's fine.
My SIL tended to her father when he had advanced dementia. I'm sure if was challenging, but she took a matter of fact approach. Eventually, he had to be placed into a facility.
That's a tough job for young man. He will develop some good traits doing that kind of work.
I must be the only one feeling a pang of discomfort with the idea. I don't worry about the grandmother as much as the healthy development of the boy. He is very young to be taking on this type of responsibility, especially if it takes up a large part of his time. He needs to be doing the things that typical boys his age do, e.g. school, career building, mate seeking. Serious caregiving is not something I would assign to any 18-year old, male or female.
There's a story here. If you give us more details about the situation, you'll get better responses. It matters if the parties are comfortable with the situation.
It depends on the grandson. Some 18 year old young men are mature, caring people, while others only care about video games and the music system in their car. Maybe this young man is headed toward a nursing career. If both parties are comfortable with the arrangement it may be comforting for grandma to have someone she knows caring for her. It would be a good idea to arrange for some respite for grandson so that he can have a life outside of caregiving, too.
It's very unusual. Why would it be morally wrong? If he's unhappy with it, or she is, or either of them feels co-oerced into the situation somehow, then that's a different matter. But then it's a different question.
My mother lives with my brother and his family, including 5 kids, one son. This son has grown up caring for, first, my father who was bed bound and now my mother who is going downhill quickly. I know this kid has helped do things for my mother what society would deem "not right"--but mother is very comfortable with the family and sees nothing wrong with it. My nephew is now 23 and has just finished his EMT training and is looking to nursing school. I'm sure he never felt coerced. He is a very loving, caring man.
My question would be for how long would this grandson be his grandmother's caregiver? Doing the math, grandmother could be as young as in her mid 50's. Would he be helping her for the next 20+ years? If so, that would be so very unfair to him.
Is this grandson being paid? I would hate to see him in his late 20's without a dime to his name because he wasn't employed getting a salary and numerous benefits.
young (handsome) male aide came to give ma a bath I was somewhat taken aback but soon got used to the concept. The hospital made him cover his arms because he had been a marine and he was covered in tattoos The powers that be though it might frighten the patients. If they had asked me I could have told them not nearly as much as having him come to give an elderly woman a bath. I agree some people might be very uptight with the concept and sentencing this grandson to providing care long term is not fair but not more unfair that than asking a grand daughter of the same age to give up her life.
I think there would be something morally wrong with expecting or demanding an 18-year old to take on this kind of task. If he chooses to do it, I think it's fine, as long as he has the opportunity to exit if he wants to.
I guess we're not getting the back story. My SiL wanted to spend her dying mother's money on a NH or home care. Her sister (who is an RN) wanted all the family members, including the then 18 year old college student grandson to help out and bathe/toilet grandma at home. Three years after the poor woman's death, they are still in court. Sisters and cousins are no longer speaking. Not what their mom would have wqnted.
Thanks for the comments everyone. The grandson was practically raised by his Grandmother, she is 80, has all her faculties, but is nearly wheelchair bound and quite overweight. She has not encouraged him in any way to go to college since finishing school or even get a job elsewhere. I think she is too protective of him and it suits her for him to be told that he has to look after her. He has no direction in life, all he does is play video games. He will be paid some sort of a wage for looking after her.
Oh, dear. It sounds like someone needs to provide the young man with some guidance. He sounds like a failure the launch case in the making. Since she is 80 years old, I wonder what will happen to him when she is gone. I guess a situation like this has to be taken one day at a time.
Him to be *told* by whom that he *has* to look after her?
You sound very disapproving of the situation - hard to say whether more of grandmother exploiting her grandson, or of grandson using his grandmother's care as an excuse to stop at home and fiddle about. Where do you fit in to the picture, if you don't mind my asking?
She is my mother in law and he is my nephew. I agree I think it is a bit of exploitation from her end and laziness from his end. However saying that, she is very controlling and I don't think he would have the guts to stand up to her and really tell her what he wants to do with his life. I am not sure whether he is happy to do it or not. He has no friends, no direction. We are part of a large extended family, some of the family agree with it, but most of them don't.
Grandma seems happy with the care she is receiving. Is it her job to encourage him? Or should it be the responsibilty of the entire family? How didmhe end up beneath grandma's wing? Has anybody else developed a relationship with him? But, I am curious by immoral what you meant. A young man caring for grandma? Is it the gender difference? The age difference? The problem I see, and it is bnot a question of morality, but rather where is the male influence in his life? Who has developed a relationship with him that may have some sort of positive influence? Most importantly, again, immoral?
Kit it may well be exploitation from her but lazy? really? If she has brought him up then he is, in effect if not in reality, her son and she may see him in that light. That said it is not his DUTY to look after her. If he is doing all the household chores and oiling/bathing her etc and pushing her around in a wheelchair then I query the lay bit since I can tell you first hand that care is not for the lazy. If however you are saying he neglects those things in favour of video games then she is at risk.
Either way while it is unusual it is certainly not immoral. It becomes immoral when he abuses her physically, through neglect, financially, spiritually, emotionally or in any other way. At 18 my concern would be that HE is the one being abused by being forced into a position he doesn't want to be in, and that in turn could put MIL at risk in the long term.
I wonder if he has the skills to manage someone who is physically in decline in a safe way for both of them, but if he has been raised 'to do' for her he probably does have some of the skills but certainly not the skills he will need to fight for her well being. Most people on here haven't had an easy ride looking after someone especially where the extended family does not extend to respite care or even in some cases any care at all.
Unless someone is afraid this guy is going to develope an old lady fetish, I really don't see this as a morality issue - more likely an ethical one. Is grandma consciously taking advantage of this kid? Probably not quite how she sees it but it certainly is a way to keep herself in her house and to keep him tied to her apron string as well. Personally I think this is a terrible idea - I thought so at first and now that you've described him in more detail I think so even more. If he has no friends now, just wait and see how his social skills deteriorate even further after he's spent a couple of years giving Grannie a spong bath. If he is the way he is now, it because of how he was raised and influenced by the adults in his life. Come on, he's all of 18! Someone needs to step up and help this guy out by way of direction and guidance. Get him enrolled in a community college - maybe he could do a little part-time Grannie care to help with his tuition but I do mean part-time as in no more than 20 hours a week. I have a nephew that sounds a lot like this kid - my nephew actually has Asperger's syndrome - gaming was his only interest. His parents got him into community college taking computer type classes - he is now living in a dorm at a four-year university. Isn't there someone in your family who can help this kid make a better life for himself?
Hi KitCat6, I personally do not think it's moral to ask someone that young to do that kind of work. My best friend's dad became ill right as we started college, and as she lived at home and commuted to school, she was expected to do the dirty work. It was scarring for her. She told me but would not complain to her family. Boys that age are famously non-communicative. I would not wait for him to express that he's uncomfortable with the situation, just assume that he is and try to find others to come into help with the bathing and toileting, and maybe the grandson can keep some other household responsibilities.
I too think the right thing is for the family to step in and offer the boy some help. It is so easy to get lost at that age, and on top of that, caregiving often pulls people into a rut. He sounds like he could use some support and guidance. Good luck!
Yes, it is morally wrong to exploit a young person to do personal care for another family member. If that is the case here it is wrong. (And it would be wrong regardless of gender.)
If this were a 6-month stint until the start of a course he wants to take, OK.
If his career goal is health care and he does this part time while he takes courses, OK.
There may be a few other situations where this would be to their mutual advantage, providing that he is paid the same and does the same tasks as someone from an agency, and it is a proper employment situation with taxes being paid and his SS account paid into. But if it smacks at all of exploitation or coercion, then it is morally wrong, in my opinion.
Thank you for explaining that you're the DIL in the case.
So you would know, then: what happened to nephew's parents? You say that you feel that Grandma is overprotective/controlling; could it be that there are historical reasons for her to believe that this young man needs hovering over, extra protection, perhaps protecting from himself? Could she be right?
Clearly it's not an ideal outcome if he were to end up stuck in his grandmother's house, hamstrung in attempts to develop his own working and social life, and becoming increasingly unsocialised and isolated. To avoid that, someone needs to come up with a better plan that will address both of their needs - so who is someone? You? Your husband? Or maybe you can think of another 'family broker' type who might get somewhere?
I think we've put the morality part of the case to bed, though. And, just à propos, in a negotiation of any sort where others need to be persuaded of the unwisdom of their choices, I don't think questioning the morality of those choices is the way to go. Unless you *wanted* to start a fight..?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I see no issue, in fact it makes me smile.
Angel
My SIL tended to her father when he had advanced dementia. I'm sure if was challenging, but she took a matter of fact approach. Eventually, he had to be placed into a facility.
That's a tough job for young man. He will develop some good traits doing that kind of work.
Is this grandson being paid? I would hate to see him in his late 20's without a dime to his name because he wasn't employed getting a salary and numerous benefits.
I agree some people might be very uptight with the concept and sentencing this grandson to providing care long term is not fair but not more unfair that than asking a grand daughter of the same age to give up her life.
You sound very disapproving of the situation - hard to say whether more of grandmother exploiting her grandson, or of grandson using his grandmother's care as an excuse to stop at home and fiddle about. Where do you fit in to the picture, if you don't mind my asking?
If he is doing all the household chores and oiling/bathing her etc and pushing her around in a wheelchair then I query the lay bit since I can tell you first hand that care is not for the lazy. If however you are saying he neglects those things in favour of video games then she is at risk.
Either way while it is unusual it is certainly not immoral. It becomes immoral when he abuses her physically, through neglect, financially, spiritually, emotionally or in any other way. At 18 my concern would be that HE is the one being abused by being forced into a position he doesn't want to be in, and that in turn could put MIL at risk in the long term.
I wonder if he has the skills to manage someone who is physically in decline in a safe way for both of them, but if he has been raised 'to do' for her he probably does have some of the skills but certainly not the skills he will need to fight for her well being. Most people on here haven't had an easy ride looking after someone especially where the extended family does not extend to respite care or even in some cases any care at all.
I too think the right thing is for the family to step in and offer the boy some help. It is so easy to get lost at that age, and on top of that, caregiving often pulls people into a rut. He sounds like he could use some support and guidance. Good luck!
If this were a 6-month stint until the start of a course he wants to take, OK.
If his career goal is health care and he does this part time while he takes courses, OK.
There may be a few other situations where this would be to their mutual advantage, providing that he is paid the same and does the same tasks as someone from an agency, and it is a proper employment situation with taxes being paid and his SS account paid into. But if it smacks at all of exploitation or coercion, then it is morally wrong, in my opinion.
So you would know, then: what happened to nephew's parents? You say that you feel that Grandma is overprotective/controlling; could it be that there are historical reasons for her to believe that this young man needs hovering over, extra protection, perhaps protecting from himself? Could she be right?
Clearly it's not an ideal outcome if he were to end up stuck in his grandmother's house, hamstrung in attempts to develop his own working and social life, and becoming increasingly unsocialised and isolated. To avoid that, someone needs to come up with a better plan that will address both of their needs - so who is someone? You? Your husband? Or maybe you can think of another 'family broker' type who might get somewhere?
I think we've put the morality part of the case to bed, though. And, just à propos, in a negotiation of any sort where others need to be persuaded of the unwisdom of their choices, I don't think questioning the morality of those choices is the way to go. Unless you *wanted* to start a fight..?