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My wife's sister, who holds the POA for their Mother, has elected to place her in an assisted care facility a thousand plus miles away from her and all of the siblings. Recovery from hip surgery from a fall and the onset of dementia is present. Basically the kids all have moved away and there is no one close to effectively manage care on any kind of regular basis.

Getting any kind of information of what the POA holder plans to do has been impossible.

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I never thought that I had to give updates because I thought my siblings trusted me. Boy was I wrong. At the time of signing of my parent's POA, I asked both my parents if they trusted me and they both said they did and that's why they asked for my help in the first place. One of my money hungry siblings, didn't like the idea. I didn't know he was money hungry until he asked my mother if he could take care of her bills -- nothing else, just the bills. When she said "no" he got p*ssed off. I took care of everything including the bills and anything they need. This sibling did nothing to help my parents. Didn't visit them at home or call them and I was with them for about 8 to 12 hours and 7 days a week. There is much more to this situation, but I know that you know what I'm saying. My parents have since passed away and now I'm being called a thief. What did he do to help -- nothing. Anytime any of my siblings would call me to find out about our parents, I would answer their questions, but they chose to believe what they wanted to believe anyway. I did what I thought was right and I had one brother that had my back, who was the second POA. Nobody calls him a thief. Nobody asked him for anything. I believe it would have been worse for me to have meetings and explain what was going on because I would have been met with opposition on a regular basis and if I asked them for help they would replied minimally. This opposition would definitely impede my care for my parents. I work well and quicker alone and get things done. My parents were always grateful for what I did for them until the day they passed away and that makes me happy.
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Jimm6747... getting back to your original issue.. has this thread helped you at all get some clarity? Got a little hijacked along the way, but. I hope you have got what you need from it. Best of luck.
(I must remind my dad how lucky he is that 5 of the 6 of us still live fairly local to them!)
Is your MIL happy where she is? I guess that is the critical question.
Very sad that none of you live near to her for visits.
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Stop bickering. It is not helping anyone.
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Debralee, if that's what her advance directive said and you abided by her wishes, then that should be enough. If the doctors indicated they did not think they could ever get her off the ventilator and she had ruled against a tracheostomy and long term vent support, then doing anything else would have been incorrect.
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alh123, I was my mother's health care proxy. I had to use it when she went into the hospital due to a broken hip from a fall. She was living independently when this happened. After her surgery she was placed on a ventilator. Due to her having COPD , they could not wean her off the ventilator. I had to make the difficult decision on her behalf to take her off the ventilator and let nature takes it's course. She died two hours later. She did have a health care directive about her end of life care and what she wanted. What records could I possibly keep, that would protect me from what would be considered improprieties? I was not powerless in making an informed decision on her behalf and the medical examiner ruled it an accident. Should I request a copy of the medical examiners report to coincide with her death certificate? Should I request copies of her hospital records? Being an heir of her estate, I would not want to be accused of causing her a premature death to collecting on an inheritence. I am also her Executor. Any advice?
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No matter the wording on a DGPOA, and despite it not being mentioned in document, the agent is still expected to keep records and produce them if / when asked.

With an advance directive / medical poa, I would still keep all records. Not keeping records could render you powerless or unable to defend yourself if improprieties are suggested.
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Reread the original question and realized the poster was asking about POA for medical not financial. How things can change with post after post.
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It means-I feel like these postings are bordering on forum rage!

I am not arguing with you. You stated in one of your postings "In most states, the POA must retain all records of all transactions, and if an interested party requests it, the POA must furnish that info to the. interested party." Your exact words. I was my mother's DPOA, bless her departed soul, and no where in that 8 page document was there anything written that I am required to furnish documents to interested parties. This DPOA was drawn up by her Estate Attorney. If it was law,it would have had to be stated in the instrument.

I was not trying to be condenscending when I mentioned the college or your profession. I was sincere. I will stay out of your postings. Sorry I caused you to have to defend yourself in your postings.
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I wouldn't consider discussion rage, just because you gave misinformation. It's one thing to express sympathy and another to give information. I don't believe in giving false info to make someone feel better. My point is, as it always has been, to let people know that having a poa does not give you ultimate, unquestionable authority.
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Translation, please, for those of us who don't speak the language??

And I don't think ALH is a professor, certainly not an attorney as he doesn't phrase issues as an attorney would.

This thread is getting better than some of those silly day-time programs where people fight with each other.
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What do you mean---you gave me the benefit of the doubt? I don't owe you a thing, nor am I looking for your approval. This is a forum on a poa question. I gave an answer that, despite differing laws in different states, should be helpful to some. You claimed to know what all 50 states' laws don't mention, which implies that you know all of the laws in all of the states. Unlikely. Why argue the information I've put out there? I gave helpful info; if you don't want to use it, don't use it. if you don't live in Virginia, what does Virginia law matter to you?
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Mi sento come se questi messaggi sono confinanti sul forum rabbia!
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That's only a part of the law having to do with poa. Other sections list duties/responsibilities, etc. As for what I do, that's none of your business.
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To give you the benefit of the doubt, I found the satute you are referring to in Virginia Uniform Power of Attorney Act

" Except as otherwise provided in the power of attorney, an agent shall disclose receipts, disbursements, or transactions conducted on behalf of the principal if requested by the principal, a guardian, a conservator, another fiduciary acting for the principal, or, upon the death of the principal, by the personal representative or successor in interest of the principal's estate. If so requested, within 30 days the agent shall comply with the request or provide a writing or other record substantiating why additional time is needed and shall comply with the request within an additional 30 days."

I do not see were it is written, "other children or other relative/interested party".

William and Mary is a well established college, your affiliation with it is impressive. Are you a law professor?
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Seabiscuit, what I'm going to say may sound cruel, but I do believe you love and did the best you could for your mom, but....why on earth did your mom not think, even a little, of you? Somehow, elders like your mom are never held to account for the evil they do or the precautions they fail to take. (I'm assuming that your mom has been reasonably competent all the years you were caregiving for her). She must have know what snakes these people were/are. So why didn't she protect herself and you from them? I guess I'm not too feel-sorry for people just because they are old, or someone's mother, or have gray hair or whatever, I think it is a form of ageism. Now when there is real incompetence, then or course they are not responsible, but otherwise why should they not be expected to act reasonably?
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Debralee: since you're now correcting my spelling, allow me to correct yours: 1. It's absolutely, not absolutley
2. "There is ....no state statutes..." is incorrect. Are is used with plural, is with singular. Correct options: "are no statutes" or "is no statute."
3. Same thing as above with "if there is abuse of powers..." Should read "power."
4. A run-on sentence is one without proper sentence ending.
5. Ending sentences with prepositions is not advised.
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Debralee: too bad I misspelled vitriol. It's probably because I'm too busy at William & Mary to worry all that much over a word. In any case, you are incorrect. In many states, including Virginia, the agent is supposed to retain records, and anyone who is an interested party is granted right by law to request those. Also, according to Virginia law a judge can order the agent to do what the interested party requested. So, before you type that no state has such laws, perhaps you should read the laws in all 50 states. The powers granted in a poa do not deprive another person of rights--this includes the person giving the poa as well as other children or other relative/interested party. There are good reasons for this right. I'd never lie and say that I know what all of the laws in all states are; I can, however, be fairly confident in knowing that it is unlikely that any state would consider the rights of an agent (holder of the poa) of higher importance than the rights of the person granting the poa. If there are no ways to challenge an agent, then the rights of all others are not considered. Being that the person who allows someone else to conduct business via poa is the most important party in the entire scenario, to not provide legal protections and remedies for abuse would deprive that person of the most basic of rights.
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A DPOA is required keep careful records of what they do with the principal’s property and assets. Written reports are only required if the POA document specifies it and to whom it can be given to. There is absolutley no state statutes in the USA that mandates a DPOA to make written reports. The principle is the only one who can mandate a report from the agent. The principle has a right to keep their personal affairs private and the agent has that obligation to insure it. If there is abuse of powers, then yes, the agent will have to answer to a judge. "Vitriole" is spelled "vitriol"
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ahl123, I'm in the State of Georgia. The attorney who drew up the POA surrounded by at least two witnesses is a good place to start if abuse of the power is suspected.
If fraud is committed, then by all means the police should be notified to create a record, so that the attorney may proceed towards a court action. The donor then becomes the plaintiff, and the abuser becomes the defendant. Isn't that the way it goes?
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I'm beginning to see that nobody on here reads answers. I think folks are just typing and griping. Once again, people, YOU MUST KEEP THE RECORDS, BANK STATEMENTS, ACCOUNTS, RECEIPTS, ETC., BECAUSE YOU CAN END IN COURT IN FRONT OF A JUDGE WHO WILL TAKE AWAY YOUR POA AND ASSIGN IT TO THE PERSON WHO ASKED FOR THE INFORMATION. Seabiscuit, you're bitter, it seems. You're also incorrect--a judge can't take grandma's money. Read the law before you spew vitriole.
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And there you have it, it depends on the wording in the POA documents. Anyone with POA should read the whole darn thing and commit it to memory. A judge is not a personal representative, but his powers come through his office as a justice of the court. Now a Health Care Proxy could be interpreted as a personal representative, and often POA's won't tell them anything. In fact, a man named Pittas would not share financial information with a nursing home or the Judge who heard the lawsuit. He ended up having to pay $93K to the nursing home; apparently the Judge was not amused.
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Just off the top of my head, an authorized personal representative suggests the PR (as they've been called I believe since enactment of the EPIC statute) of a Will; a Trustee would also be an authorized fiduciary, as would any successor PRs and Trustees.

I can envision a situation in which a PR or Trustee who didn't hold the DPOA asked for an accounting of activity pre-death.

Typically documents have a list of definitions; as I recall, our Living Trusts did, but I don't recall about the DPOAs. Something I'll check out though.

It may be that "authorized" is determined by case law, but there may also be some statutory reference. I'm going to check mine tomorrow and see what I find.

Notice also that the language is "only if I so request OR ...made by an authorized PR...". So there are two options, one of which would be if the person who executed the DPOA requested it, which I find interesting.
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Out of curiosity I pulled out my POA (for my mother) to look at the language applicable to this situation. Here it is:

My Agent shall provide an accounting for all funds handled and all acts performed as my Agent, but only if I so request or if such a request is made by any authorized personal representative or fiduciary acting on my behalf.

To me, the key word here is "authorized". A sibling would need to be authorized in order for me to be required to produce an accounting. I am assuming that a judge could be considered to be an authorized personal representative (authorized by the court), but not a sibling. Any thoughts from those of you on this site who have legal experience?
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The answer is NO. Yes, be prepared to handover all financial transactions to a judge who may very well be looking for any reason to steal the pensions and estate in order to fill the coffers of his appointed lawyers and court officials who ensure his campaign funding is ample for his re-election. The elderly are being preyed upon by the families and the courts, it's big business plain and simple. Many on her sound like the disgruntled siblings and family members who didn't get picked as POA and want to busy body, snoop and bully and have a conflicting say in anything you do as POA. Meanwhile you do all the work while they obstruct obstruct obstruct. We're talkin about selfish, greedy liars and thieves here folks, from the siblings to the judge and his court minions, to the hospice workers and the managers at assisted living. They all get paid by grandma.
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Not sure if you have to provide accounts of expenditure as PoA, but it is certainly adviseable to do so if only to protect yourself as PoA:
1. From disguntled mistrustful siblings
2. From LO who may have memory failure/dementia kick in, and can get very paranoid and accusatory (even the most loving parent/loved one can turn on you when dementia hits)
Keep a separate track of all expenses.
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@N1k2r3: I don't know which state you're in, but the attorney who draws up the poa (and it is not required to have a lawyer do a poa, really--you just have to include the proper wording) has nothing to do with abuse of power of attorney. An attorney cannot just rewrite a poa over hearing that someone suspects poa abuse; only judges can order the removal of someone's poa, after that person either commits abuse of poa or refuses to reveal records/actions when asked for them. Also, if fraud is suspected, you call the police, social services ,etc., and start a report/case. Nobody calls an attorney when someone suspects someone else of committing a crime.
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As I recall, the appointment of a POA by a donor is a serious and legal endeavor. It requires at least two witnesses who signatures must be notarized under seal, and then an overseer is also appointed ( usually the attorney who arranged it ). If an unsavory appointee is writing checks to herself, the lawyer who arranged the appointment of the POA must be notified. He may wash his hands of the situation, or he may write the POA on behalf of the donor and call attention to these circumstances. These are serious charges.
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@GardenArtist--the wording on a poa gives the agent certain powers. Also as important are state laws concerning the responsibilities of the agent. Check you state code,--probably available online in entirety, to see what an interested party has the right to ask you for, and what your obligations are once someone asks you for the records. There are always two things to be concerned about as am agent--the powers granted by the document itself, AND state law designed to protect the grantor. In Virginia, for example, any interested party concerned with the welfare of the grantor can ask for all fincial records, and any changes made to other documents, so they can request proof of what you've done with the powers allowed you in the document. If you don't respond, a judge can order you to do so, and if you still don't cooperate , the judge may relieve you of your burdensome poa. I don't know the laws in all 50 states; you'll have to look them up.

The poa is not a document rewarding the person who does the most with power. The poa allows someone to act in certain ways for someone else, in the interest of the person granting the poa; Because there are dishonest people who use their poa to do things that interest them instead of the person giving the poa, the law allows the agent to be questioned by anyone else interested in the well-being of the person granting poa. So, rights must come with responsibilitiesand the laws don't care if the interested party has seen the person granting the poa for years or not.
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ALH, would you care to provide specific statutory citations for your statements? If I'm wrong about my fiduciary responsibility, I'd like to know about it.

This process ia an ongoing learning experience.

Thanks.
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Again, the law is not concerned who has or hasn't been showing up'. The only concern. is what the law says, not how the holder of the poa feels. You are incorrect if you think you don't have to keep records. Second, what you do as agent (poa) CAN be called into question by others. If you're interested only in handling affairs for a parent, you'll be perfectly willing to provide that for interested party perusal. You feelings don't matter in such a situation. I wish those who were answering questions wouldn't answer unless they know the answer, and it's based on law, not feelings. The law says you need to furnish the info. If you don't,you could find yourself standing in a courtroom in front of a judge who has the authority to take away your poa.
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