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I recently requested a welfare check on my mother. They went and when I called to see if she is ok, they told me I'd have to go to the house she is staying in myself, they know I am 1400 miles away. so what's their purpose if they can't assist you?
I'm not sure what state your mother is located, but in NC, there are state laws about how and when Adult Protective Services investigates on reports concerning the welfare of an adult. Here, they are required by law to check out certain things. Here, the police or sheriff's dept. also does welfare check if someone has not been seen or heard from in so many days and no one will come to the door.
I'm not sure what to tell you. I'll bet there are others here on this board who will know though. Perhaps, they will respond soon.
I'm sorry you're going through this. It can be very scary.
My mother is in NY I had written them a letter telling them my younger brother is forbidding me to have access to her, because he and his wife are using her funds. He told me if I call his house he'll call the police and file harassment charges on me. I am not in good health myself to play childish games. so I thought ok I will let him cool down and he'll let her call, she has onset of Dementia so she won't call me herself. that was February...so since her bday passed and she didn't respond to my card that I sent I thought ok enough now, 9 mts is a long time. she even had surgery in March and he didn't let me know. so strange what people will do for money..
With APS, you can ask them to do a welfare check and to contact you if there is an emergency. They will do that, but under HIPAA restrictions, they cannot share the details if mom tells them not to. My guess is mom is fine and she will not allow them to talk to you. Read between the lines.
Did you specifically tell APS that you suspected financial mismanagement? I hope you can prove it, if that's what you're alleging.
By the way, I'm sure it was just casual use of language, but APS is not there to help you. Their job is to help your mother, if need be.
Is it impossible for you to travel at all? I realise that it's not just down the road, but I can't help thinking that if I were that worried about my mother's welfare I'd be getting on a plane rather than leaving it for nine months and then calling in the authorities. How did you get to hear about the operation, given that your brother isn't speaking to you and your mother is incommunicado?
real long story about a very dysfunctional family... there are only me and my brother left. my other brother died last year, mom had no contact to me or my other brother for 14yrs. her choice. she was wrapped up in my late brothers whole life and didnt find space for us. when he died she called us, but going back now before he passed he told an aunt he wanted to place her in a home because she was already showing signs of Dementia... he neglected to contact us and committed suicide..I spoke to mom every day since that funeral and suddenly she was getting worse and worse with memory..when I spoke to my brother who took her from her home in CT to Ny she hates Florida so she won't come to even visit me. he told me butt out he'll take care of everything. she is not abused in that way, but she is living with 5 adults + her in a 975sqft home..totally cramped she told me herself back in Feb. I only questioned my brother why are we holding onto her home when that money can be used in other ways like to invest it for her future should something happen, we're not young anymore.. he blew up at me telling me that home will be his summer home for him and his grown kids and inlaws. imagine that my dad worked his whole life to die and support others..no way. my lawyer couldn't assist me further as he is not a NY or CT lawyer for Elder law. I've been very ill myself and always thought my mother (since they claim she is fine) would call. I found out about the operation by checking her bank statements ...and there I saw visits to Drs. etc...I was told never to call my brothers house as he'd file charges on me, I was even taping conversations of him threatening me. My lawyer told me to let them blow all the money and then when he needs help I can step away. The fraud part I can prove, I have bank statements where he is taking money out for personal usage. College tuitions, internet services, broken car repairs etc.. Credit card statements showing stuff that my mother would never use or buy etc.. The agency asked for proof to show the attorney general. I wouldn't say anything if I couldn't prove anything..stupid I'm not. every state rules are different on welfare calls..
The NYS Attorney General would not let something like this slide by. Nor will he act on it without hard evidence. On the other hand, if your brother is caring for her, that is a lot cheaper than Assisted Living. Weigh your options.
Yeah, but I don't think ALF bills normally include college fees, do they? If you have that down in black and white, I think I'd take it to the police rather than APS. But if the police ask your mother about it and she says it's a gift, then it's not misappropriation. Grey area unless she's been declared incompetent and your brother has POA.
How are you getting hold of bank and credit card statements, by the way?
As Country Mouse asks - how are you getting bank and credit card statements if you are 1400 miles away from your mother? Something doesn't seem right here.
I have POA shared with my brother and am able to see what is going on. Only thing was her medical, the lawyer made a drastic mistake at the time of preparing her "in case of emergency" we said that since I am in Fl and she is up north that one should be able to make a quick decision without having to go back and forth on the phone, so the lawyer took it that my brother doesn't have to inform me. that is how I found out she had surgery through checks that were written. @Pam you are right I know he opted to care for her, but we both and my mother that time said regardless where she's at each one of us will be allowed to get $ through the month. Well when my sister in law the bank account she turned my brother so far against me. I truly wish today I had a written statement from my dad when he was alive for my brother and his wife to stay far away, and one from my mother before she lost her memory of her hate for that girl. I know she isn't abused so that is comforting, but....to lie and take what you didn't earn is not right.. what got me upset was that Adult protective care couldn't even advise me if she is thinking straight or on any medication for her dementia...
You have *joint* POA with your brother? If you have joint, as opposed to joint and several, POA you are equally accountable for any mismanagement of funds. Go back to the lawyer who drew up this documentation and take his advice.
I certainly will Country Mouse, I got her credit card statements today and boy he got lots of new things,where he spent her money..mom drives a lawn mower now..lol mom got a new stove in another house..oops.. mom got a $1000 basketball hoop..you go mom... will contact a lawyer tomorrow.. thanks..for the advise..
just received her credit card statements for the past year and saw lots of expenses that don't belong. mom now owns a $1000 basketball hoop, a new lawn mower a new stove all items over $1000..no wonder when I last spoke to her she said oh no I think I made a spending mistake. and food shopping bills out of this world..
me again... today I went online to pay a bill for moms electric and found out my brother who shares Joint Poa closed the acct without notifying me. I know if he drags mom to a lawyer he could of removed me as POA ...wouldn't I be notified.. I am giong to contact a lawyer now
So what happens to the bill? It's a very muddled picture that you're still receiving utility bills for her but he's controlling the account, isn't it? Let us know what the lawyer says, but it is a shame you can't just pick up the phone, call your brother and ask. Sounds like a very expensive way of doing things! - and of course it's your mother who'll end up paying. What a minefield POA is, eh. Hope to hear better news from you.
Dear, you said on Oct 30 that you were going to call the lawyer the next day. Did you? If you are joint poa, you could be held responsible for this if you have knowledge of it. Why are you dragging your feet?
I had gotten sick in between with health issues. I had to wait on certain documents which finally arrived and proved my brother is spending mom's money. waiting now on a call back from a lawyer for an appointment. my husband said in the end if it's all too much I should give up my poa and let the ball roll where it may...thanks all for always listening.. have a good day..
Well I've been working on this since November only to hit a stone wall. As I posted in another thread,without me putting $8000 down as a retainer and $22,000 in the full amount I can't even get a lawyer to sit down for a mediation. And on top he said, if I do a mediation and for some reason my brother feels a threat by my actions he will be allowed to bring his own lawyer as well as my mother, and because of my concern I could get the bill for their attorneys as well. then of course mediation won't be resolved in a day or two, he told me I'd have to be available for up to a month and foot my own costs of travel and legal expenses.. I told him I cannot being that I am disabled and just can't pick up and go where I want to. Adult protective services knew of my situation and I explained that I not only wanted to know my mothers state of mind BUT to let my brother know he'd better stop spending money. They in turn call me back telling me they can't tell me anything. the district attorney told me that organization is good for nothing, I should call the police. First off the stress here of waiting, and then to trouble the police with a non emergency matter troubles me. I know they'd be able to handle the situation much better, I'm still leaving that option open. But just the fact that one who claims to care for a parent and one who just wanted her money..is so unfair. The lawyer questioned me as to why if my mother is no longer living in her house why are more than $10,000 in taxes and bills being given out each year why not sell it..I had to tell him my brother plans on using the home which he cannot afford on his own for a so called summer home. Again money that is not his being used for himself. They all turn it around and say maybe your mom wants to keep the house. I'm tired of fighting..she wants to sell and is so afraid of my brother and his wife,she backs down when confronted. So come next week it'll be a whole year I haven't been allowed to talk to my mother., thanks to my brother and because I do not have the money to get the legal help needed, mom's money will just dwindle away in the hands of 2 people my late father despised. his own son.
Pita2u, curious since you have had no communication with your mother for a year, how do you know what are her current wishes are regarding her house, and that she is afraid of your brother and his wife?
In my last conversation with her she begged me to get her out of NY to go back to her home. I told her I will do my best, even if I knew she could never live alone again, and then she kept talking of selling her home, she just wanted to go home. and she herself said earlier on that the house was too big she wanted to split it all between my brother and I. She was going to be a snowbird and like the snap of a finger my brother stepped in and I was pushed out. And it's all because they(brother and his wife) had time to go through paperwork and find out my mothers worth. See mom became a widow 3 yrs ago and we lost our younger brother to suicide in 13. Suddenly my mom reappeared in our lives after 15 yrs she needed my brother and I. My late brother told my aunt he wanted to die, and told her my mom's dementia had gotten so bad he wanted to place her in a home. But being that in between she had clear moments his hands were tied,but instead of calling me, we were once close he took his life and left a disaster in the making, and of course with nothing in writing how can one prove anything. My talked open to me, she told me times where my brother whom she lives with now is a bully with his temper, he always was, but she said she stays out of it. All I wanted to do was help her. I don't want her money even if it would make my life easier, but it wouldn't be fair, my other brother and wife both work and have jobs and take and take with no guilt. So like I said,basically if the law can't help me, I have to just step back..I will contact the DA again thank them for doing nothing, and I will contact the original lawyer , perhaps he can write my brother a letter. One more try is what I have left. if not there isn't much more I can do.
Pita2u, please take some time and learn about what happens to a person who has dementia. Go to the blue bar near the top of this page, click on "Elder Care", now click on "Health Conditions", now click on "Alzheimer's & Dementia". Read as much as your can. It's an eye opener.
For example, when you mother says she wants to *go home*, what she is meaning is that she wants to go back to her childhood home, or pass on to her last chapter of her life.
Another symptom of dementia is *story telling*. Your mother could be telling your Aunt *stories*, of which what she is saying is not true.
Once you learn about dementia, you will see a whole different perspective.
yes freqflyer I am well aware of Dementia.. she isn't the first one in her family to go through this... only she did say where her home was, she wanted to reconnect with my late brothers belongings.. she never had time to mourn her loss... my brother just yanked her out of her environment..which was horrible. I had offered to stay there with her after my late brothers funeral so that she could adjust and make day trips to my other brothers house.. and in between she had surgery and wanted her own doctors, and he wouldn't allow it. My late brother was the one who spoke of death to my Aunt. She felt it wasn't her place to inform anyone of his wishes. she has to carry that burden not me. I've spoken to so many people who's siblings etc have done the same thing, only to have the parent suffer in the end because there aren't funds to take care of them. I just wanted to do what was right, the legal way. And at this point I really don't want to deal with my brother,he is a bully, and has threatened many around him. He wants the money and dare anyone step in his path. Thank you for pointing in the reading dept... I am well aware of her sickness..
Pita2u, don't forget it is your brother who is caring full time for your mother. He has a lot on his plate and it is very exhausting work. Getting telephone calls from someone who lives many States away and giving advice is the last thing he needs. That could be the reason he stopped taking your calls. I recall reading here that he was going to serve you with harassment charges.
You had written that your mother didn't want to visit you in Florida because she doesn't like Florida.... I have yet to hear of any parent not wanting to visit their child because they don't like the State. Sounds like there is more to this situation.
I hope you, your brother, and your mother gets this situation straighten out.
no she really doesnt like florida.. she used to visit me when my dad was alive because he loved it...she dreaded it. you'd think in her old age she'd would love the wamer weather. she loves her northern country. she was willing to come for visits which was fine with me, when she told me that my brother doesn't want her going anywhere. And I don't nor ever have given him care advice he knows everything better anyhow. everything was fine with communications until they got wind of her holdings... thats when he named himself boss.. and my mother well she said she's too old to fight..
OK. Brother has been raiding the piggy bank, and you have proof. But, no one in authority cares because mom is being taken care of well enough, and neither you nor Mom have it in you to put up a protracted legal fight. I think Brother knows he's won.
If you concede formally to him, will he let you see her, and is that more important to you than the $$? Unless you just try going back to the police with all the evidence you have, I can't think of anything else you could do about this! Mom made the decision on the POA and to some degree is living with the consequences. Sorry to hear it has played out this way.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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I'm not sure what to tell you. I'll bet there are others here on this board who will know though. Perhaps, they will respond soon.
I'm sorry you're going through this. It can be very scary.
My guess is mom is fine and she will not allow them to talk to you.
Read between the lines.
By the way, I'm sure it was just casual use of language, but APS is not there to help you. Their job is to help your mother, if need be.
Is it impossible for you to travel at all? I realise that it's not just down the road, but I can't help thinking that if I were that worried about my mother's welfare I'd be getting on a plane rather than leaving it for nine months and then calling in the authorities. How did you get to hear about the operation, given that your brother isn't speaking to you and your mother is incommunicado?
How are you getting hold of bank and credit card statements, by the way?
For example, when you mother says she wants to *go home*, what she is meaning is that she wants to go back to her childhood home, or pass on to her last chapter of her life.
Another symptom of dementia is *story telling*. Your mother could be telling your Aunt *stories*, of which what she is saying is not true.
Once you learn about dementia, you will see a whole different perspective.
You had written that your mother didn't want to visit you in Florida because she doesn't like Florida.... I have yet to hear of any parent not wanting to visit their child because they don't like the State. Sounds like there is more to this situation.
I hope you, your brother, and your mother gets this situation straighten out.
If you concede formally to him, will he let you see her, and is that more important to you than the $$? Unless you just try going back to the police with all the evidence you have, I can't think of anything else you could do about this! Mom made the decision on the POA and to some degree is living with the consequences. Sorry to hear it has played out this way.