Would appreciate some care giver advice on a decision I need to make today.
A couple in the extended by marriage family (both nurses living in Knoxville) have asked me to take charge of their children (ages 13, 10, and 4) for at least the next several weeks, perhaps a few months. The grandparents live in my area of the state but are also involved in health care. The parents are offering a generous stipend for their needs (so there's no financial impact) and the grandparents will help with shopping so I can remain isolated in my home with my mother (88 with MCI and mobility issues) and these kids. My nephew who lives next door (with his wife and children ages 15, 14, 11 and 5) is the mother's first cousin and the father was my other nephew's best friend through high school. I have know both these parents literally all their lives.
Their plan B is for the grandmother to resign her position to care for the children while her husband continues to work and lives elsewhere. This is a secondary plan because it takes a health care worker offline when they may be really be needed, separates the grandparents, reduces the grandparents income as they near retirement, and the grandmother will probably have more problems helping the kids with their home learning than I would.
My instinct is to say yes; normally I would enjoy having the kids here. They are independent and well behaved children who have stayed with me previously when the parents, siblings with spouses and grandparents went on a cruise together. They would enjoy spending time with the cousins next door, particularly the 4 and 5 year old pair.
The first problem is I just not sure I'm up to it physically. I'm recovering from a bacterial infection in one lung and only started catching up on household chores I have delayed (like dusting the living room) over the last couple of months this week. Spring allergies will impact my asthma soon. The mother states her older children are accustomed to helping with household chores and she would expect them to continue doing laundry, meal prep and cleanup, keeping their own rooms clean, vacuuming, etc. in my home.
The second problem is my mother's declining cognition. She was diagnosised with MCI with short term memory impairment 6 years ago but has started showing dementia behaviors in the last year. Mostly this is time disorientation; she thinks it's 40-60 years ago and wants to visit family and friends who are no longer living. I can usually distract her or get her back into 2020, but in the last few months Mom has had a few times when she gets determined I _will_ help her dress and take her visiting, becoming argumentative over a 1-4 hour period. It's upsetting to me but doesn't seem to bother my nephew's children who visit the house nearly every day and have observed this behavior. The parents are not concerned about my mother's behaviors but I remember other posters on the forum stating how they felt their childhoods were damaged by having a grandparent living in the home and my mother would be the great-grandparent generation. My mother retains her sweet and cooperative personality most of the time, but she has always been a determined personality too so when she "insists" she wants to going visiting she is very adamant.
I have discussed my concerns with the parents and they still prefer their children live with me through the covid-19 epidemic in our area; my nephew and his wife (who will be impacted by these children interacting with theirs) agree. We have just entered community spread in our area, going from 8 cases last weekend to 26 this weekend and about 60 in the Knoxville area. I am leaning toward giving it a try with the understanding if things do not work well, they will need to move to plan B.
Thoughts?
i think you are leaning in the right direction of taking the children in.
I understand your concern that their presence may set you back in your recovery from the infection, your household chores and the affect on the children of your mom’s condition. However the way I see it is this will give the children an opportunity to learn about caring for an elder. Life is not always rosy. My 91 yr old Alzheimer’s mom lives with me ( and a full time caregiver) and it has been lovely to see the kids( my teens) interacting with her...
they are learning tolerance and compassion.
in regards to the housework.. let the children help out! You can make a game out of it, offer small rewards or whatever. The house may not be as clean as you would usually have it but it will be fine.
It sounds by your description that the kids are well behaved.
Im sure they would rather be with you being able to play with the children next door as well instead of with a grandparent all day.
So... I would say welcome them with open arms. Let them know how happy you are to have them. Show them lots of love. This is hard on the kids too.
They will learn about the values of families sticking together, the sacrifices parents have to make, the joy of having kids next door and bonds with extended family.
Good luck! Keep me posted!
Warmly,
Melanie
I'm one of those folks who talk about my grandma's effect on us living with us when I was a teen. The problem in our case was that my mother was not always so "present" even when she was home physically (prone to depression/anxiety) so grandma being around just sucked all the energy into the black hole of my mom's ability to attend to our needs. That's not the case here.
I have many fond memories of doing the Reader's Digest vocabulary quizzes, watching soap operas and Jeopardy with my grandma.
We are living in an era of making choices that are the lesser of two not so great choices. As long as there is a back door and these are well behaved kids who understand at least in part why this is happening, take a chance.
If the community spread takes an uptick, I may break contact with my nephew's household - his dyslexic son would move back into my household so I continue helping him with his schoolwork; his 5 year old little brother might come too since his mother is determined he is not going to get this virus before there's a vaccine. So there's an outside chance I may end up isolating with 5 kids - 4, 5, 10, 11, and 13!
Things more often don't go as planned or even back up plans. You're not in a position to be doing this, and shouldn't attempt it. There's no telling what damage could be done to your own health or if that arrangement became long term. And there's no way of knowing what may change with the virus from moment to moment.
If they can't keep their own children, they're better to seek other alternatives vs. visiting their problems on you ~ you've got enough on your plate.
These kids are not going to create a ton of work, 2 are old enough to help with the little ones and the housework, actually all 3 for housework. Their energy could very well help your mom, there is just something about young people that creates joy in a home.
Definitely make it clear that you will have to implement Plan B if it doesn't work out.
God give you strength and peace during this time of helping our frontline worker's keep their children safe. What you and others are doing on this front is just as important as the frontline guys. Thank you for all that you do. You truly live "We are all in this together!"
Great big hug to you. I still want to adopt you.🤗
Medical professionals as front line responders are facing such tremendous challenges, and I feel they deserve all the support communities can offer.
The issue is where the line between the additional responsibilities crosses with your own responsibilities and obligations. And that's not a finite line.
There's a possibility that their children as well as the ones in your more immediate family can step up and handle more responsibilities, so that yours now can be shared. That does bring more family in contact with family, but also people to people contact and potential risks may rise.
Have either or both of the nurses been tested? If not, I would be concerned as the front line responders are right out there in the line of viral fire. If they have and are not positive now, the risk may be less, but things can change in a heartbeat.
If this were my family, especially my niece, I would take the children, see it as a learning experience for all, planning activities like gardening and other self reliant ones to help them bond together, connect with the real world and not the tech world, but I would also scale back expectations of my own planned activities and accomplishments.
There's perhaps one critical question to ask yourself: can you do this w/o the health of anyone, you, your mother or others, being compromised? And a second question is a back-up plan, which knowing you, I suspect you already have.
What are alternate plans if (a) any one of you becomes ill, or God forbid, contracts the virus? Who, if anyone, would step in? And do you have back-up in place now, notwithstanding the potential of the CV entering your family?
I suspect you have to run through all the scenarios, plan for best and worst case scenarios, and after objective analysis, make an emotional decision.
Last week I finished reading Adm. McRaven's Sea Stories, which included an enlightening and inspirational chapter on how the bin Laden op was planned, with multiple levels of contingencies and backup plans. This is how I would assess the potential care of the children.
1. Identify everything you do now, everything that might happen in light of those responsibilities, and identify back-up potentialities, at as many levels as possible (allowing for failure or unavailability at any level).
2. Explore and determine if family backup would be available, and willing. I.e., who would take any of you for medical treatment if you were unavailable? How many alternate drivers would you anticipate, and on whom you could rely?
If you can't find reliable or committed backup, that could be the first problem in this proposed venture.
3. What you'd be doing is kind of a Critical Path Network, with staging of priorities & tasks, but you'd also have as many alternate plans as possible to provide a very detailed scope of actions and potential actions.
4. Meet with your family members, including children, with a list of what might be needed and BRING them into the planning scenario. See if you can inspire their team playing instincts so that they see what they can bring to the table, and what skills and self esteem they can gain.
You're insightful and strong enough emotionally to do this; the questions would be the physical and health issues, as well as finding support for emergencies.
And I would definitely take some time off to create the task based and back-up scenario when your mind is free and relaxed.
Please let us know what you decide. I suspect that your analysis can offer insights at many levels for the rest of us, and especially me as I'm feeling overwhelmed again!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/27/opinions/healthy-diet-immune-system-covid-19-mozaffarian-glickman-nikbin-meydani/index.html
The children can make a project of this, researching the foods and how to integrate them into meal plans (even if you've already done this). It helps educate them on critical foods, what they offer, and how they can be mobilized even at a basic level to provide for better health.
Techie, you DO NOT have to be compliant with deadlines established by someone else, when they affect YOU so seriously. Establish your own reasonable guidelines. I firmly believe you need a serious op level backup plan before making a decision.
If Mom and I were to get sick, there's still enough family (aunts, uncles, cousins) around that would take even sick kids; we're just trying to maximize the family's resources and keep the kids safe and happy.
I don't know about your state but we are to quarantine in place. Meaning that this woman's children and the ones next door should not be playing together. You should not be socializing outside of your home or bringing others into it. And because these people are directly involved in caring for people, who is to say they aren't or one of their kids is not carrying the virus. They should be staying in their own home.
You have an elderly Mother and you suffer from asthma. You both are in the "at risk" category. This virus hits the lungs. Years of asthma attacks have scared your lungs.
You are caring for someone with Dementia. Mom is your priority. Its a nice gesture in any other circumstance but in this one, it could mean ur death or your Moms.
I reprimanded my oldest Gson yesterday because he came in my house and picked up his brother to hug him. My Gson is still working because he is considered essential. My husband takes him to work (gson suffers from epilepsy) and picks him up. Thats bad enough. If it wasn't my daughter, RN, wasn't essential I wouldn't have the 7 yr old. But, there is no other choice. Both his parents are essential.
In my area we have 3 cases. But this could rise if people don't take precautions. Schools are now closed until Middle of April. We need to get this virus where there are no new cases. And even then we will need to quarantine for a while longer It has to die out. And it can't if we don't stay in place. The longer people refuse to not adhere to the precautions, the longer this will go on.
Me, I would tell this "extended family" sorry I am not able to do it for the reasons I listed. YOU AND YOUR MOM'S HEALTH are AT STAKE HERE!
I am not being paranoid here. My BIL is a Dr. of Immunology and he said just follow the precautions. Stay at home and only go out when u need to. Limit your exposure.
Actually, the Grands taking them is not a great idea either. The best would be one of the parents staying home. Maybe one doing day shift, the other doing night shift. A 15yr old is quite capable of stayjng home with the other two during shift change. I actually think this couple has the gaul to ask anyone to care for their kids. Especially, for maybe months.
So, plan B I guess.
Risk of Getting COVID-19
People with asthma may be at higher risk of getting very sick from COVID-19. COVID-19 can affect your respiratory tract (nose, throat, lungs), cause an asthma attack, and possibly lead to pneumonia and acute respiratory disease.
Your post hits close to home for me. Last week I agreed to care for my 6 yr old grandson and 17month old granddaughter. Schools are closed but daycare is still open.
We decided the youngest does not need to be in daycare if that can be avoided. A few hours after I agreed I panicked. But, I survived the last week. I was exhausted, but happy.
The above mentioned are my son’s children.
My daughter called about an hour ago to let me know the business she works for is closing it’s doors thru April if needed. At the end of business today. They are going to be paid and health benefits will be in force. Says a lot about the owner. Well that he can afford it, but also that he is generous.
Daughter single has no children. She is prone to depression and anxiety. I expected her to fall apart when she was telling me the news. But, she sounded okay. Said she can help with the kids.
I live in a rural area outside town. I think she will load her dogs in a couple days and head this way for a while.
Techie, I have read your posts. You are one smart lady. I think you will make the decision that is right for you.
This mission, should you choose to accept, might work if the older kids have a to do list. Housework, yard work, schoolwork, laundry, etc.
You must have a huge heart ❤️
I also think having a plan B, or a way out that is understood by all is crucial!
Initial thought: I think you MUST take another day or two to decide.
Other quick thoughts: Do the parents know about your asthma and lung infection issue? Do they realize that if you take the kids and then they are interacting with your nephew's family, and some are working and going here and there and interacting with others, etc., then you and your mother aren't truly socially isolating anymore? Would they agree to let you socially isolate the kids too (no playing with another household)?
Other, darker quick thoughts: if you become ill, what's the plan for your and your mom's care? If your mom becomes ill, is she able to advise you what sort of care she might want? Hate to say it, but does she have a DNR, would she or you want her intubated, alone, in a hospital, confused... Or could you do palliative/hospice at home?
I think if you do this (which might be wonderful and the right thing to do, I keep going back in forth in my mind!), you should make sure your own will and last wishes, medical info, POLST, etc. dox are all prepared. Same for your mom.
All the documents are prepared. Mom has a combination HCPOA and directive document with me as primary POA and my brother as secondary. Because of my asthma, I have had my own affairs in order since my 20s; back when we had smoking offices I had some very close calls.
Are they pulling your leg? Is this April Fool's Day come early?
That's a no. It's definitely a no. No. Not even sorry, no. Just no.
MOVE THREE KIDS IN TO YOUR HOUSE WITH YOUR 83 YEAR OLD MOTHER? NOW???
I think they have a nerve to ask.
My answer would be a firm No. Your first priority has GOT to be your own health and fully recuperating from the issues you've been going through. Having kids around is a strain, let's face it.........and can further compromise your immune system. Your secondary priority is your mother, and you have a full plate with those 2 priorities.
Tell your family sorry, but you just can't possibly accommodate any more responsibility right now. What if the kids got sick? I mean, there are so many 'what if's' here that it's mind boggling.
Stay safe and say no.
Right.
The little ones are not going to be having playdates. You would be entertaining that four year old on your own.
Moreover. You are talking about moving these young people, who currently live with two front line health care workers, into your home. Have they been antibody tested? Is there any prospect of that?
Look - it's a completely crazy idea. 60 confirmed cases in the Knoxville area? - just think how many unsuspected undetected ones, then. No. Life is on hold for everyone now. One of them will have to withdraw from work for the time being; the other will have to lodge wherever Knoxville is housing its critical health workers. I realise this is tough, I realise this reduces the number of nursing staff available in the immediate term; but the answer is not to expose yourself and your mother.
It's a no.
I’m leaning towards no. You have enough on your plate. What is your backup plan if these extra kids in the house cause a major disruption with your mother?
NOBODY is getting the testing that's badly needed for this virus. We can all be carriers and/or have the virus and be showing no symptoms right now, and be unaware of it. THAT is the reason for social distancing and for not taking people into your home right now. These children CAN have the virus and not know it. They CAN be carriers and not know it, meaning you and your mom are vulnerable. In two weeks time, when we see 10's of thousands more cases in the USA, we'll realize that SO many of us WERE infected and/or carriers and didn't know it. That is the sad truth of this situation, and the simple reason why your answer must be No.
Women in particular have been taught we need to leave a trail of blood on the floor to prove we're proper caregivers. That we're 'doing enough' to care for others, at our OWN expense. I'm here to say right here and now that it's time we take care of OURSELVES now! It's time to say NO to others and look out for ourselves & those immediate family members we care for at home. It's okay to take ourselves out of harm's way, to stay home, to hunker down and allow the powers that be to create vaccines, to get needed supplies and PPEs into hospitals so that we CAN be cared for properly if we get this virus and need hospitalization. My daughter is a front line nurse going back to work next week in a downtown hospital where they have NO N-95 masks & have to care for COVID-19 patients!
I have a feeling that you want to do it anyway, so not sure why asking anyone's opinion, but if you do, you had better have some plans in place if your mom gets worse, or if your health gets worse.
One part of me wants to do this and another part is screaming NO. This week I'm just starting to feel half way normal after being ill for more than 2 months. I don't have my normal energy and it would really be tough for at least a couple of weeks to pull this off. I was so looking forward to being on a "staycation" with just Mom, my books and streaming services. I have even told my 66 yo brother (who's an essential worker) not to come by until summer when we might have a picnic in the yard sitting 10 ft apart. If I didn't have Mom to care for, I would do it without question. I also know my mother would rather die herself than loose one of the family's children. I feel the same way.
The RN parents didn't create the CV situation. They are going to be under a tremendous amount of stress in the coming weeks and maybe months taking risks and trying to save lives. Don't they deserve to believe their kids are safe? It's not my responsibility and my own health problems give me a reason everyone will accept for saying no. I'm just trying to decide if I should do it anyway.
These "NURSES know u have an infection and suffer with asthma and are still willing to take the chance of putting their children in your home. What are u going to do if u contract it. How ru going to care for Mom.
Your infection is why u shouldn't do this. Your immune system is now compromised.
I think they are selfish people. I would bet they r getting bonuses to be on the front line. Our local hospital is asking for LPNs at $40 an hour. They need to make other arrangements.
I am getting anxiety just thinking about u doing this. Please say NO!
If there are other family members who would do this immediately then let them. You need to take care of YOU and YOUR MOM. Period. And the nephews kids should be distancing from you too.
The results of extensive testing in iceland are very interesting.
"But what makes Iceland unique is that test samples are not only taken from ‘high risk’ individuals who have exhibited symptoms, came into contact with known carriers, or returned from countries such as China and Italy, they are also offered to thousands of ordinary members of its general population, who are nonsymptomatic.
The data derived from this widespread testing show that while almost a fifth of those from the ‘high risk’ population prove positive for COVID-19, roughly 1 percent of the general population also carry the virus ‘asymptomatically’ " https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iceland-employs-detective-work-testing-quarantine-coronavirus-fight-n1170166
This helps to account for the rapid spread of this disease.
Please act wisely. These parents need to find another solution to their problem,
2) The children's parents have a great idea to place their children in a safe place while they work in healthcare. They should do it elsewhere to keep your elderly Mom and you safe.
3) This plan does not sound anything like how we are to isolate
at home, called "Safer at home" in my area.
4) This 'personal sacrifice' is for such a good cause, however, I think you have already made that sacrifice for your elderly Mom.
Do not allow her to be exposed to 'visitors', because that is what the children are. You cannot be sure they are not exposed or carriers of the virus, unless they are tested and quarantined elsewhere for 14 days, imo.
5) You will be hard pressed to remain in isolation when the children want to visit their cousins next door.
Since you have the family compound, you know the kids are not at risk of general exposure when they play together. And it will be much better for the children's mental and physical health to have a big space in which to play and playmates of similar ages.
All the kids are of an age where they can do chores, even the little ones.
Gathering all the children together is something I have considered and will be discussing with my brother. We have a vacation property, where his kids and his sister in laws kids could all hang out for the duration. With a beach and 11 acres of forest, there is much to keep them occupied. Our place is not fancy, but between the two cottages and the bunk house we have 9 beds, most big enough for 2-3 kids each.
"They would enjoy spending time with the cousins next door, particularly the 4 and 5 year old pair."
Last Friday, in the news:
"(CNN) A New Jersey woman and three of her children died from coronavirus, and two other relatives are in critical condition, a family member said.
Another relative has the virus and is in stable condition, and 19 other family members have been tested, Roseann Paradiso Fodera, a cousin of the mother, told CNN.
Grace Fusco, 73, died after being diagnosed.
A son, Carmine, and daughter Rita, in her mid-50s, died earlier. Another son, Vincent Fusco Jr., died Thursday, Paradiso Fodera said. He was in his early 50s.
"This is an unbearable tragedy for the family," Paradiso Fodera told CNN.
"The family's biggest concern is that we have four members of one family who have passed, two on life support and one stable," Paradiso Fodera said. The 19 awaiting their test results "are anxious that their relatives have passed and they don't know if they are infected or not."
Testing for the family members was performed Saturday, and no results had come back as of Thursday.
"Why don't the family members who are not hospitalized have the test results? This is a public health crisis," Paradiso Fodera said. "Why should athletes and celebrities without symptoms be given priority over a family that has been decimated by this virus?"
The 19 include "children, parents and grandchildren in this family," she said. They are in quarantine.
Fusco died unaware of the earlier deaths of her oldest son and daughter from Covid-19, the disease caused by coronavirus, according to The New York Times, which first reported the story.
These states have some of the most drastic rules to fight coronavirus.
The infections appeared to have originated from a family dinner this month, The Times reported.
All hospitalized family members were at a medical center in New Jersey except Carmine, who was in Pennsylvania when he died, Paradiso Fodera said.
Grace Fusco's oldest daughter, Rita Fusco-Jackson, died Friday, and shortly afterward, the family learned she had coronavirus. Carmine Fusco died just before his mother Wednesday, The Times said."
AND make sure you have your POA's assigned. You are mom's? Who is successor?
I am Mom's primary, my brother is secondary and we can name successors.
Also, the children are 13, 10, and 4. Though not ideal, couldn't this family have the parents working opposite shifts as someone else mentioned, with the 13yr firmly in command at home with appropriate phone support and supervision from adults, such as you for instance.
I am now leaning toward no on this.
I'm sorry but I do not think any 13 year old should be left alone to care for a 4 year old for any length of time; it's just too much responsibility, particularly if some emergency situation occurs. Several years back a 14 year old was left to babysit a 10 year old. The 10 year old's head was pulled under water when her long hair was sucked into the whirlpool tub jets. The 14 year old called 911 and otherwise completely froze, not even calling or going for help from the next door neighbor. When EMTs arrived, they found the babysitter curled into a ball on the bathroom floor, the whirlpool tub still plugged and a drowned child past reviving. As an adult, I would have pulled the plug to get the water draining and ran to the kitchen for a knife to cut her hair; I have had life guard training and would have had an excellent chance reviving the child. The 14 year old just didn't have the emotional maturity to handle the emergency. Both lives were really lost that night because the 14 year old never recovered from helplessly watching the younger child die and took her own life 3 years later.