Would appreciate some care giver advice on a decision I need to make today.
A couple in the extended by marriage family (both nurses living in Knoxville) have asked me to take charge of their children (ages 13, 10, and 4) for at least the next several weeks, perhaps a few months. The grandparents live in my area of the state but are also involved in health care. The parents are offering a generous stipend for their needs (so there's no financial impact) and the grandparents will help with shopping so I can remain isolated in my home with my mother (88 with MCI and mobility issues) and these kids. My nephew who lives next door (with his wife and children ages 15, 14, 11 and 5) is the mother's first cousin and the father was my other nephew's best friend through high school. I have know both these parents literally all their lives.
Their plan B is for the grandmother to resign her position to care for the children while her husband continues to work and lives elsewhere. This is a secondary plan because it takes a health care worker offline when they may be really be needed, separates the grandparents, reduces the grandparents income as they near retirement, and the grandmother will probably have more problems helping the kids with their home learning than I would.
My instinct is to say yes; normally I would enjoy having the kids here. They are independent and well behaved children who have stayed with me previously when the parents, siblings with spouses and grandparents went on a cruise together. They would enjoy spending time with the cousins next door, particularly the 4 and 5 year old pair.
The first problem is I just not sure I'm up to it physically. I'm recovering from a bacterial infection in one lung and only started catching up on household chores I have delayed (like dusting the living room) over the last couple of months this week. Spring allergies will impact my asthma soon. The mother states her older children are accustomed to helping with household chores and she would expect them to continue doing laundry, meal prep and cleanup, keeping their own rooms clean, vacuuming, etc. in my home.
The second problem is my mother's declining cognition. She was diagnosised with MCI with short term memory impairment 6 years ago but has started showing dementia behaviors in the last year. Mostly this is time disorientation; she thinks it's 40-60 years ago and wants to visit family and friends who are no longer living. I can usually distract her or get her back into 2020, but in the last few months Mom has had a few times when she gets determined I _will_ help her dress and take her visiting, becoming argumentative over a 1-4 hour period. It's upsetting to me but doesn't seem to bother my nephew's children who visit the house nearly every day and have observed this behavior. The parents are not concerned about my mother's behaviors but I remember other posters on the forum stating how they felt their childhoods were damaged by having a grandparent living in the home and my mother would be the great-grandparent generation. My mother retains her sweet and cooperative personality most of the time, but she has always been a determined personality too so when she "insists" she wants to going visiting she is very adamant.
I have discussed my concerns with the parents and they still prefer their children live with me through the covid-19 epidemic in our area; my nephew and his wife (who will be impacted by these children interacting with theirs) agree. We have just entered community spread in our area, going from 8 cases last weekend to 26 this weekend and about 60 in the Knoxville area. I am leaning toward giving it a try with the understanding if things do not work well, they will need to move to plan B.
Thoughts?
No one in our family has gotten CV yet and the infections continue to be low in Northeast TN even as testing numbers climb. We had a spike a couple of counties over a couple of weeks back when 39 people working on a large farm tested positive during the strawberry harvest but only 4 contacts of those 39 were also infected. Across TN, infections are about 5% of those tested, hospitalizations about 8% of confirmed infections, and death rates 1.6% of confirmed infections, although deaths under 20 are about equal with those 70+. Many of those kids (about 80%) had serious pre-conditions (cancer, heart defects, diabetes) but many did not.
Our community is continuing to reopen using social distancing guidelines. Although Mom and I continue to remain mostly at home (except for her adult day care with restarted 2 weeks ago, she's now tested weekly), the kids and other family members are dining out, attending football conditioning drills (9 boys and 1 coach) and even attending a skating session. Skating sessions are shorter than pre-CV to allow more cleaning and ventilation time between sessions, the rink takes everyone's temperature and limits the number of kids in the building at any one time, installed plastic sheets between booths in the snack area and has sanitizer deployed everywhere. It's my biggest concern but with 22' ceilings I think it's still a reasonable risk as long as infection rates here remain in the single digits.
Most days the kids are playing in the yard and sometimes with other neighborhood kids who are remaining in the area too. I've set things up on the porch so the kids can get to drinks and snacks without entering my home. We even built a "summer" outdoor bath so visitors do not need enter our homes and setup a video game room in the garage. My nephew purchased a boat and is taking the kids to the lake 1-2 days a week weather permitting, part of our vacation at home plan for this summer.
My nephew half-heartily complains I have "corrupted" his sons since he started to get back into the truck last week after refueling without using hand sanitizer and his oldest son called him on it. The son told his father he didn't want to miss football because Dad was careless.
The extended family kids will stay here at least until school starts and maybe even afterwards depending on the infection rate then and social distancing plans the schools will use. Their parents (subject to weekly testing because of their health care jobs) visit on their days off, usually hanging around here most of the time but also visiting relatively "safe" reopened venues.
Right now the thinking is we will probably be sending the older children (age 11+) to school when it starts in the fall but the parents are still considering whether to home school or maybe use one of the church based pre-school/kindergartens for the 4 and 5 year olds. We question whether the younger children are capable of protecting themselves with proper hygiene and social distancing in a group situation that includes hundreds of older children with buses, hallways, and bus loading waiting areas in gyms. Currently even if we avoid the buses, the kids still share a large waiting area before being sent to the classrooms. The church based programs allow the kids to go straight to the classroom and many are offering meals in the classroom too; platters of food are delivered then the teacher/helper makes a plate for each child and delivers it to his/her seat. If the 4 year old ends up in pre-k here, then her older siblings will stay here too. She has done very well being separated from her parents but that's probably because her older siblings came with her and she enjoys having playmates. After staying with me several months she might do okay even without the daily support of her siblings. That decision is in the future when we have more information about not only CV but the school plans.
So sorry you need to do this. Some people just don't see the problem. Your nephews wife (ex?) Just needs to understand that seeing her kids is not an option right now. So does the nephew.
I don't think my nephew is likely to repeat his mistake with his ex; his current wife and mother of his 5 year old is much too likely to continue expressing her displeasure over every little thing she has to do"extra" to maintain this little isolation cell for the next 3 weeks.
Our current plan is for grand-nephew to dump the RV's laundry hamper into a laundry basket setting near the patio table. We will put the clothes through a hot wash and hang it out on a circular clothes line we use with the RV. Rain may force the use of the dryer, but we would like to use the disinfectant properties of sun drying if possible. Spray the laundry basket down with our Lysol mix and let it dry in the sun. Fold the laundry and place into basket for grand-nephew to take into the RV. Disinfect the basket again and store until the next laundry day.
I'll know more when he returns from work this evening.
My DH is willing to take more risk of public exposure than I am. It's not a huge amount, but more than I'm comfortable with for someone over 70. Last night I asked him not to renew his (non-essential) employment contract later this month -- for the sake of both of us. We have other income but he loves his job. Whatever he decides, I'm afraid one of us will be dealing with some degree of resentment.
I am now the overreacting old foggie! He says because there's only 3 cases in our county the risk "can't be much" _but_ 2 of those cases are community spread - the health department has no idea how they became infected. As I understand the curve those 2 are the tip of an iceberg and the people they infected before they were symptomatic are 7-14 days out. I reminded him the 15 year old #1 son he is so proud of is also an asthmatic and it's just possible this gamble could cost his very life. Nephew with his high blood pressure and his wife with her light smoking are not completely safe either.
I have barred the dyslectic child or anyone living with him from entering my home for 21 days. I purchased another Echo show we can use for homework and pleasure reading. Niece in law has sent her 5 year old (#3 son) to stay in my home because she doesn't want to risk his exposure (and he really loves playing with the 4 year old already here). She says it will be hard not to be able to hug him for a while but at least she can watch him play in the yard every day.
I have caused dissension in their marriage, almost the last thing I would ever want to do. I recommended my nephew take the RV out of winter storage and set it up for #2 son to stay in for those 3 weeks. He would probably love having "a place of his own" and #3 son would be at home instead of his absence continuing to fuel his mother's displeasure.
Although generally a reasonable person, I get the idea my nephew would rather pound sand than just admit he made a snap decision at the end of a long day and didn't really consider the altered circumstances. He seems intent on doubling down and exposing the rest of his family too. That worries me on more than a personal level. If this intelligent, successful and educated small business owner in his 40s doesn't appreciate the danger by now, what's the chance we will ever get through to the younger crowd, some still having group socials in city streets and parks? Did anyone see the arm in arm photo of the Cowboys receivers with QB Dak and Dez Bryant?
And here I thought my biggest challenges for a while would be coming up with things to keep the kids busy!
There have been several stories in the news about shared custody and Covid 19. We have almost 1200 positive tests, and 35 deaths,
In my family I care for my infant grandson 2-3 nights a week. I drive 40 minutes to pick him up and drive him home with no stops along the way. It is a matter of weighing each situation. The Social Workers know that my grandson's parents need a regular break. We have two options, I look after the baby part time or he goes into full time foster care. This is the better option.
Currently the word is that shared custody agreements stand unless one household has symptoms of Covid. We all know that it can spread before symptoms, but this is the way it is being dealt with here in BC.
In your family's case, i understand your concern, the boy may have brought the virus back to your family compound and is putting the whole family at risk. As social isolation is likely to continue for weeks if not months, what other options are available for him to see his mother?
Why do you feel 21 days are needed? I am wondering if you have some information that I have not seen. Here we are being told to quarantine for 14 days if there is potential exposure. If a person is sick they have to quarantine for 3 additional days after they feel well.
Glad you know about safe handling of takeout containers. DH and I just recently saw a youtube video showing that and how to clean groceries -- lots of safety measures to take these days! Stay well and enjoy those young'uns!
I think you will all make some wonderful memories for the future.
My county now has 1 confirmed case but we definitely have community spread starting in some adjacent counties so beginning April 1 all non-essential businesses are closing and a stay at home order is in place. Fortunately or maybe unfortunately, almost everyone in the family works essential jobs. It's good to know you will have a paycheck but we're still nervous about the increased exposure risk.
BTW: Grandmother leaves the meals in their take out bags on the front porch. I lift the containers out of the bags, wipe them down, and place them on a tray to bring inside the house. The bags go into the outdoor trash. Similar process for groceries and other supplies.
From the Smithsonian - “We literally have to have absolute compliance,” Alessa says. “Without that, this is our new normal.”
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/what-we-know-so-far-about-how-covid-19-pandemic-could-end-180974533/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200330-daily-responsive&spMailingID=42147152&spUserID=ODg0NzU5NTE3MDYxS0&spJobID=1722980826&spReportId=MTcyMjk4MDgyNgS2
We all have horror stories. My youngest son was assaulted at age 23 and died a few days later. We were required to make to decision to pull the plug. I watched his heart stop beating. But I have not let any fear that arose from that govern my decisions about my children or anything else.
I have wondered why you ask as you appear to have made up your mind to go ahead with this. Do you still have doubts or are you wanting endorsement, should, God forbid, anything bad happens, so that you feel better as you have others on your side. I don't mean to be harsh, I really wonder. But I don't need an answer. After all the decision lays with you. Regardless of that, I do wish you and all your family the best outcome. I wish it for all of us.
We did comply with all the social distancing and stay in place guidelines. In fact we exceeded them. Child care is a fact of life for essential workers. These kids are not going back and forth for child care. They made a one time move after a 15 day self-isolation period and a negative covid-19 test to "stay in place" for the next several weeks or months.
Now to minimise all the risks you can. Washing hands, regular disinfecting benches & taps, outside shoes stay outside, keep your home a safe bubble.
I'd have a special chat with each child of aabout the situation, what they understand about it & what responsibilities they will have. What are their skills? Maybe the 4yr will enjoy colouring or some other craft/activity with your Mum? Maybe the 10yr old likes to cook? The 13yr old could co-ordinate the chores list etc?
I know the world was very different when my Mum was born but her 13 yr old sister would wheel her in the pram to the health centre to be weighed in her own. The younger brothers would post letters or run errands by bike.
Good health to you all through this time.
I know it's not heroic, but to me it is very simple. Nobody should be in your house who does not already live there. I understand the parents' professional feelings, but one of them should suspend his or her career (her, on the face of it) for three months* and take care of the kids at home. This is a gamble you do not need to take, which you are taking because of their choices.
The children, especially the little one, are highly unlikely to become ill and do not need to be quarantined away from their own home for their protection. This is a childcare services issue, it is not a child protection issue, and childcare services should not be provided by - forgive me - a somewhat older lady with health issues who lives with a senior lady with very demanding health care needs of her own.
I can't bring myself to see this as the right decision, I'm sorry.
* less, should they catch the virus and recover. They will then be completely free to return to work.
The risk is when the kids enter my home, afterwards their presence while we all stay here does not increase my risk of being infected. They have been isolating in their home for 15 days and will have been tested before they arrive. There is a risk to my health but it is very small, certainly only a fraction of the risk their parents will be returning to on Monday.
Will look forward to hearing from you again.
It is nice to be needed, isn't it?
You have the heart of the many people in your family who are dedicated health care workers. And a caregiver's heart. There will be no stopping you as you continue to give of yourself from the heart.
Bless you on this journey....
The dining rooms have been closed nearly 2 weeks. When they were closed there were ZERO CV cases within 100 miles. The 8 cases within a hundred miles that originally developed in our rural area were young people who traveled out of state to the beaches and NYC despite local advisories to delay all non-essential travel.
My nephew has been working in his fields, sheds and garages located on the same property where his house and my house are located. A typical day is taking the tarp off a stack of antique lumber, selecting which logs or flooring materials meet the current project needs, using a bobcat to move the lumber to the garage, cleaning it with a pressure washer, loading it onto a 25 ft trailer, band and tarp it. Next day drive the lumbar to the job site which is more than half a mile from the nearest unoccupied structure and 12 miles from the nearest public road, unload it, cut it to size with appropriate saws in the basement or garage area of the house under construction, carry it to the room needed and install it. His entire construction crew at this point is 4 men since he has laid off others who didn't want to commit to safe CV practices. Everyone on that crew is a family man who is going to work and back home. The only stops are at mountain convenience stores to purchase fuel, bottled water, soda, chips, etc. or a drive thru window for food. They wear gloves and maintain more than 6 ft of distance most of the time as part of the normal construction process. The county they live as well as the county they work in and the county the convenience store is in are all still ZERO covid-19 known cases. Is it zero risk? Of course not, but it is a low risk of infection. Much lower than the parents you suggest swap shifts to care for their children. What happens when they both need to work a 16 hours shift?
The kids that have all been here on the property for 2 weeks have been distancing or isolating - it doesn't matter that we walk between houses because we have _all_ been here _all_ the time. Guidelines are people isolate at _home_, not make any unnecessary trips, not participate in any public gathering of more than 10 people and practice good personal hygiene. As soon as the first case occurred 60 miles from us, we have been taking shoes off in the garage or carport, changing clothes and taking a shower when returning to the property. My nephew has been doing this for years just because construction is a dirty business and he didn't want to bring any of that dirt into his home.
There is no way to make yourself or your family completely safe unless you have everything you need available at home right now. Very few people were or are prepared to live only from their available resources. If you are going to the grocery store or the pharmacy, you are accepting a low risk of infection.
Douglas MacArthur believed he could not be killed as long as God had a purpose for him on this earth and when he had completed the tasks God had for him, nothing could keep him alive. I'm not suggesting anyone stand tall while snipers or zero pilots take their best shot or disregard personal hygiene or protection equipment. I am suggesting we need to do our best to reduce our risks and accept it still might not be enough. If our time is up, then death will find us one way or another. I will take due care, but I will not completely stop living or contributing to my family and my community as long as I am able.
So I am going to step up and accept the low but real risk to my own life by welcoming 3 of our family's kids into my home. There will be 12 of us living in the family compound starting tomorrow and we will still be living in compliance with the CDC's stay home directives.
I might be too busy or too tired to post much for a week or two... but I will be back!
My brother lives with his son and dil, and has become his grade school-aged grandkids' daytime carer. The kids seem to be doing well with their days structured -- school work, dog-walking, chores, reading time, exercise, etc.
Let us know how things work out for you.
Have you been tested for the Covid-19 during your lung infection, or after? How about now?
This will get worse, and now is the time to "LEARN" how to do the social distancing, isolation, and quarantine protocols.
I can understand your strong desire to want to help out your family, do what you can to help others during the pandemic. However, the best thing you can do is seriously consider the consequences of failing to follow the recommended protocols of experts.
Let us know how strong you have become in fighting this virus, please, would love to hear of your decision.
With care and concern TN.....
People in caring professions make a lot of sacrifices of their lives, time and health. They're a special breed of people.
Also, the children are 13, 10, and 4. Though not ideal, couldn't this family have the parents working opposite shifts as someone else mentioned, with the 13yr firmly in command at home with appropriate phone support and supervision from adults, such as you for instance.
I am now leaning toward no on this.
I'm sorry but I do not think any 13 year old should be left alone to care for a 4 year old for any length of time; it's just too much responsibility, particularly if some emergency situation occurs. Several years back a 14 year old was left to babysit a 10 year old. The 10 year old's head was pulled under water when her long hair was sucked into the whirlpool tub jets. The 14 year old called 911 and otherwise completely froze, not even calling or going for help from the next door neighbor. When EMTs arrived, they found the babysitter curled into a ball on the bathroom floor, the whirlpool tub still plugged and a drowned child past reviving. As an adult, I would have pulled the plug to get the water draining and ran to the kitchen for a knife to cut her hair; I have had life guard training and would have had an excellent chance reviving the child. The 14 year old just didn't have the emotional maturity to handle the emergency. Both lives were really lost that night because the 14 year old never recovered from helplessly watching the younger child die and took her own life 3 years later.
AND make sure you have your POA's assigned. You are mom's? Who is successor?
I am Mom's primary, my brother is secondary and we can name successors.
"They would enjoy spending time with the cousins next door, particularly the 4 and 5 year old pair."
Last Friday, in the news:
"(CNN) A New Jersey woman and three of her children died from coronavirus, and two other relatives are in critical condition, a family member said.
Another relative has the virus and is in stable condition, and 19 other family members have been tested, Roseann Paradiso Fodera, a cousin of the mother, told CNN.
Grace Fusco, 73, died after being diagnosed.
A son, Carmine, and daughter Rita, in her mid-50s, died earlier. Another son, Vincent Fusco Jr., died Thursday, Paradiso Fodera said. He was in his early 50s.
"This is an unbearable tragedy for the family," Paradiso Fodera told CNN.
"The family's biggest concern is that we have four members of one family who have passed, two on life support and one stable," Paradiso Fodera said. The 19 awaiting their test results "are anxious that their relatives have passed and they don't know if they are infected or not."
Testing for the family members was performed Saturday, and no results had come back as of Thursday.
"Why don't the family members who are not hospitalized have the test results? This is a public health crisis," Paradiso Fodera said. "Why should athletes and celebrities without symptoms be given priority over a family that has been decimated by this virus?"
The 19 include "children, parents and grandchildren in this family," she said. They are in quarantine.
Fusco died unaware of the earlier deaths of her oldest son and daughter from Covid-19, the disease caused by coronavirus, according to The New York Times, which first reported the story.
These states have some of the most drastic rules to fight coronavirus.
The infections appeared to have originated from a family dinner this month, The Times reported.
All hospitalized family members were at a medical center in New Jersey except Carmine, who was in Pennsylvania when he died, Paradiso Fodera said.
Grace Fusco's oldest daughter, Rita Fusco-Jackson, died Friday, and shortly afterward, the family learned she had coronavirus. Carmine Fusco died just before his mother Wednesday, The Times said."
Since you have the family compound, you know the kids are not at risk of general exposure when they play together. And it will be much better for the children's mental and physical health to have a big space in which to play and playmates of similar ages.
All the kids are of an age where they can do chores, even the little ones.
Gathering all the children together is something I have considered and will be discussing with my brother. We have a vacation property, where his kids and his sister in laws kids could all hang out for the duration. With a beach and 11 acres of forest, there is much to keep them occupied. Our place is not fancy, but between the two cottages and the bunk house we have 9 beds, most big enough for 2-3 kids each.
2) The children's parents have a great idea to place their children in a safe place while they work in healthcare. They should do it elsewhere to keep your elderly Mom and you safe.
3) This plan does not sound anything like how we are to isolate
at home, called "Safer at home" in my area.
4) This 'personal sacrifice' is for such a good cause, however, I think you have already made that sacrifice for your elderly Mom.
Do not allow her to be exposed to 'visitors', because that is what the children are. You cannot be sure they are not exposed or carriers of the virus, unless they are tested and quarantined elsewhere for 14 days, imo.
5) You will be hard pressed to remain in isolation when the children want to visit their cousins next door.